You Will Be An Arsenal Player - with Terry Mancini

The World of Lord Russell PodCast Talk Show presents 'You Will Play For Arsenal' with Terry Mancini.

We role back the years on Thursday 27th June 2024, to the Halcyon days, with Terry Mancini, who is a former professional footballer who played as a centre-half for Watford FC, Port Elizabeth FC, Leyton Orient Football Club, QPR FC, Arsenal, Aldershot Town Football Club, Los Angeles FC and Barnet Football Club 

Terry was born in #England, and earned five international caps for the Republic of Ireland national football team. Terry's debut for the Republic of Ireland was against #Poland in 1973.

Memorably for Terry Mancini was Terry's one international goal at the Maracana Stadium in a friendly against Brazil national football team ahead of the 1974 FIFA World Cup 

But for me, as an Aldershot Town supporter, I remember Terry Mancini's one year spell at the Recreation Ground when he moved to #Aldershot from #Arsenal.

All live and exclusive on The World of Lord Russell PodCast Talk Show.

Transcript

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Speaker A: A very warm welcome to the world of Lord Russell podcast talk show. And today's show is you will play for Arsenal which captures the life of a footballing legend from the halcyon days. He was born in London and began his career with Watford in 1960 before being released midway through the 1965 66th season after 20 month spell in South Africa playing for Port Elizabeth City, he returned to London in 1967 to join Leighton Orient. He then went on to play for Queens Park Rangers, Arsenal, my club, Aldershot, Los Angeles Aztecs and as an international for the Republic of Ireland. Yes, folks, it gives me immense pleasure to welcome on the show Terry Mancini. Welcome to the show, Terry.

Speaker B: Thank you very much. Thank you. It's been a rush to get here today but nevertheless I did manage it. The traffic got parted enough quickly enough for me to get through.

Speaker A: Oh, it's annoying for everybody now, isn't the traffic? The roads are terrible in the UK right now. They really are. But let's start from the. I'm sorry, go on. Yeah, let's start from the beginning, Terry. You were born in London and was originally named Terry Seeley. But sadly, your father, who was irish, passed away when you were just seven years old and your mother remarried and in doing so, changing your, your surname to that of your stepfather. So what was your life, your early life like in London as a child, Terry?

Speaker B: Uh, well, I can't remember too much about it but, um, obviously I was born during the war. So, um, I never saw my father till I was four years old because he was, uh, he'd gone away to fight the war in Burma. So, um, uh, as I said, I was just short of my fourth birthday before I ever saw him. Uh, unfortunately he died just, just before my 8th birthday. So, uh, I only had a very short time with him and, but all my family, all my, all my family, irish family, I still see them on a regular basis. I go to my, on the first week of October to Dublin every year to celebrate with them.

Speaker A: Well, fantastic. Yeah, born in the war years. Must have been some excitement back then, in those days, of course, with the blitz going on, but, you know, obviously very unhealthy place to live, I would imagine.

Speaker B: I didn't remember any of it, but, but obviously all I can remember is my mother telling me that once the planes came overhead, she packed me up and run me down to Camden Town Underground station and we spent the nights there.

Speaker A: Wow, what an experience. You began your career with Watford joining the club in 1960 before being released midway through the 65 66 season. So five seasons at Watford, which must have been a great platform to develop your football style, character and ambitions as an up and coming centre half. What are your fondest moments or memories as a player at Watford, Terry?

Speaker B: Very little, to be honest. I progressed about that much. I don't know if you can see me.

Speaker A: I can see that, yes.

Speaker B: Progress about that much. Not because coaching wasn't as it is today or how it became. It was very dua game in those days, and kicking lumps out of centre forwards and vice versa out of centre halves, was partly part and parcel of the game. It was a very physical game and I sort of had never got coached in any way whatsoever at Watford. And I had progress after five years, after making somewhere around 60, 70 appearances, I didn't improved about that much.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: And I got a free transfer. The other side of it was the family business. Then after I joined, after I became a mancini, it was a pub. They had a hugely successful pub in west London, which was packed out seven nights a week with music. And once I was 14 years of age, my stepfather said, right, you're working, you're behind the bar. And I became the barman in west London at 17 years of age. I could run the pub. Wow. But the unfortunate thing was I had to work. He made me work five nights a week. So I was trying to be a footballer. Getting up, training and getting back to open up the pub at 530 in the evening, closing at eleven in those days, and then getting to bed, grabbing as much sleep as I could, and then off to Watford the following morning to train all over again. I didn't progress, as I said, I couldn't take it all in. It was just too much.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Eventually got the free transfer.

Speaker A: Wow. And not having any coaching as well. That must have been a strange setup at Watford.

Speaker B: We had. We had a manager called Ron Burgess, ex Spurs, a big, big name player in his day. But there wasn't the coach in there, there just wasn't the coaching you learned from the players you played alongside and with, you know, they played from Dave Underwood as a goalkeeper. I learned more from Dave Underwood than I did from anybody else at that early stage in my career. When I first started, it was just go out, play and sort it out yourself. That was the way it appeared to me.

Speaker A: Yeah. Very strange setup. And as you say, you were released by Watford midway through the 1965 66 season after, I think, I believe, a serious injury. That. And you moved to South Africa to play for Port Elizabeth City in South Africa, of course. So why Port Elizabeth City. Terry, an amazing move. And of course, how serious was your injury?

Speaker B: Oh, it wasn't, it wasn't serious. I mean, I. Well, it proved not to be serious, but I ruptured my thigh muscle in a challenge and it was at the time when I was about to sign for Plymouth Argyle, I think it was, and I got the injury and because after I got the injury, they weren't interested, they needed me straight away. So I was then lost, like. So I went from being. They were going to sell me for 15,000 pounds and the day after I got the injury, that was a free transfer. So it was. So nothing happened. I got the offer within two weeks to go to South Africa. Amazing, because I think every time you got a free transfer, it went out to every football league in the world. That's the only thing I assumed. And suddenly I got a phone call from a guy called Matt Crow who played for Norwich, who was manager of PE City.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: And he said, would you sign for us? I said, where are you? So he said, port Elizabeth in South Africa. I said, I didn't fancy. I didn't think I was going that far. But, yeah, it was my escape. It was my escape from the pub and I needed to get away from the pub because I was. It was just taking up too much of my life and I needed to escape if I was going to be a footballer.

Speaker A: Absolutely. And you could then be yourself, couldn't you? Not under the control of, you know, family, running the pub, etcetera, so you could be yourself and develop yourself perfectly as a football player in South Africa. And great weather too, Terry. Brilliant.

Speaker B: Went across and I, you know, I was there for two seasons. In the second season I was captain and we ended up winning the league or the South African Football League and the first time it had been held by a team outside of Johannesburg.

Speaker A: Incredible. That's a good start to your career, isn't it? Let's be honest, at a professional level, that's brilliant. And as you say, you had a 20 month spell in South Africa playing for Port Elizabeth City and you returned to London in 1967 to join Leighton Orion. You'd stated at the time you felt you'd matured both physically and mentally, both as a player and person, to come back to England and try your luck in the English Football league once again. You managed to secure a contract with Leighton Orient and went on to captain, then to the third division championship in 1960. Nine'seventy. So how was your four years at Leighton Oriento? And are there any stories you can share with us. After all, it was a very different time back then.

Speaker B: I don't think this program is long enough for me to tell all the.

Speaker A: Stories, but give us some really good ones. We'll show us some marvelous stories.

Speaker B: I mean. I mean, I joined. They gave me a month's trial when they gave me a month's trial. When I came back from South Africa, they gave me the month. But they didn't have a reserve team. There was no reserve league. They weren't in a reserve league. So they said that you'll have to just player within the team, practice matches and things like that, which didn't help. But the centre half got injured. Kalami's name now, he goes in, I'll get injured in the third week. So I got selected to play against Bristol Rovers for the third week of the one month trial I've got. So I'd obviously done well enough to sort of suggest that they would put me in.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Drove down to Bristol, peeing down with rain the whole way. And when we got there, we was having our pre match meal, which strangely enough was steaks in those days and that was the worst thing you probably could eat. But anyway, everyone used to have a steak, but it was nice to have a steak now and again. But the rain continued. Then they got the phone call to say the match was abandoned and there was no match. So we had to then come all the way back to Watford and I sort of suspected that the centre half would be recovered and I wouldn't get the opportunity again. But unfortunately he didn't. So I then played the following week against Barrow at home at Watford. We beat them. I think the score was four two, I think. But anyway, we beat them and I actually scored. So one of the goals, which was a huge surprise to me as much as it was to everyone else. But anyway, the manager, as I came off the pitch, was standing in the tunnel with a piece of paper and a pen. Come and see me. Come and see me afterwards. Come and see me afterwards. So I went to see him afterwards and I signed proof. I signed a contract. It was only in those days, it was only used to get a one year contract. Yes, an annual contract. So I signed for the remainder of the season. Got it, stayed in the side. Then I think I made 100, over 120 appearances before being injured before I was out the side again. So for next three seasons, including the one where we got promoted and won the third division championship, I played in every game. Wow.

Speaker A: That's incredible. Fantastic. You had a good time, really, at late in orange, didn't you, Terry? It's a good start for you.

Speaker B: I enjoyed it. Great lads, great, great set of supporters, small crowds. But obviously I wasn't used to anything bigger, so it didn't worry me that much. The year we got promotion, I think the average gate was something like 13, 17,000 somewhere up there, which when you went to Lake Norrie and you looked at the ground, you couldn't imagine where they got in or how they got in. But it was a great year and thoroughly enjoyed by all of us.

Speaker A: Wonderful. What a great time it was to be in. Of course, your transfer in 1971 to Queens Park Rangers ledger playing in what was a transforming team at the time. One going places with some fine players and eventually great friends too. And a very good team. Players that included household names such as Terry Venables, God bless him, Rodney Marsh, Stan Bowles, God bless him too. Phil Parks, Jerry Francis, Don Givens and Terry McClintock. What a team to you that was.

Speaker B: That was the best team I played in. I say team, that was the best team I played in. We had a sensational. The two fullbacks, Dave Clement and Ian Gillard. Tony Hazel was played everywhere. Midfield, at the back, anywhere. And a solid player we had Dave Thomas. It was a flying winger. That was the best team I played in. And we won. No, we didn't actually win the second division championship. We came second in the second division eventually and we went into the first division, but they didn't. They didn't think I would make it in the first season. They were trying to sell me. So after I got that far. But the great thing was Terry Vanderbilt was my roommate during that four year period I was at QPR and he was brilliant because he said to me, you'll be in this side, you will stay in this side, you will get in this side. Don't listen to all the **** and all the stuff they're telling you. You'll be in the team. He believed in me. And sure enough, following the first season in the Premier League or not the Premier League, the first division as it was then I got selected and I was never out of side ever again. So I did make it.

Speaker A: You did indeed. And Terry Venables was absolutely correct. What a great man Terry Venables was, wasn't he? Wonderful character, I mean. Yeah. And after winning promotion to the first division and with that team, it's not surprising. Queens Park Rangers took the league by storm, didn't they? That first season, playing every very entertaining football. So what's your greatest memories at Queen's Park Rangers in that first division season, they were enormous, weren't they?

Speaker B: We. I mean, we didn't. We didn't never struggled in the league in the first division. We didn't struggle and we weren't fighting relegation at all. But it was a new league, obviously. We were all. We all needed to adjust to it. They signed Frank McClintock from Arsenal who became my co centre half. And I learned so much from him, it was unbelievable. I did all the head in and he did all my backing up and covering. But we survived that first season back in the first division and did very well. So those players were magnificent. But then they sold me. They sold me to Arsenal and then that was the season they were when, after they sold me, they finished second in the league.

Speaker A: That's right. I think you're second to Liverpool, weren't you? Yeah. Liverpool went to the last game this season, I believe I seem to remember.

Speaker B: I was delighted for him. I was ever so pleased for him. But obviously I got this opportunity. I might be jumping ahead of what you wanted or one of them can ask me, but. But I went to. What I mean, to. To even be thought of as an Arsenal player.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Was something beyond my wildest dreams, you know, it just. I know when the opportunity came. Phew.

Speaker A: Absolutely. And we will come on to that, Terry. We will come on to Arsenal because that's obviously a major part of this show. And although you were born and brought up in England and after a chance conversation with Queens Park Rangers teammate Dom Givens, you found out that through your irish father you could play for Republic of Ireland and you won your first international cap against Poland in 1973 and went on to win five caps in total. How was your first international match against Poland? Must have been a great experience.

Speaker B: That really must have been. Well, being selected in the squad. Being selected in the squad is one thing. Playing is obviously something totally different. And that hadn't entered my mind simply because this was my first introduction to international football. Of course, we played on the Saturday. We played on the Saturday at Wolves, Wolf, Rams and Wanderers. This is QPR. We played at Wolves and beat them four two. The game you can see in the game on YouTube now. And we beat them four two. And Don Gibbons and I flew from Birmingham across to Dublin to play, to join up with the squad for the game the following day. And we were playing the international match against Poland, who drawn with England at Wembley on the Wednesday.

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker B: Knocked him out of the World cup. Oh, I remember that we then were playing Poland on the Sunday afternoon in Dublin, having played the first division match on the Saturday. I mean, it doesn't. It wouldn't happen today. They would never dream it of doing it. And then because I wasn't expecting to play, I just joined the squad. Yeah. And then Johnny Giles, it was his first game as player, manager. And I played against John a few times in the first division and. Tremendous player. Yes, better manager. And he selected me and I was absolutely, like, over the moon. Well, no, not over the moon. I just like, nervous, like in all of a sudden. Yeah. And we went out and we beat them one nil and we beat them comfortably. One nil. And all I can remember. No, it started. We lined up on the pitch to before kickoff. Place was packed out. All my family were there. It was. It was great. It was absolutely marvelous.

Speaker A: Fantastic.

Speaker B: Place was mobbed out and I stood there aside the pitch and they played the national anthem. And I turned next to me and I said, ****** hell, their anthem goes on. He turned to me, went, that's ours. I didn't know the national anthem, so I was a real kickback. But we beat them 10. And then the following year, the following season, we went on to play three games in South America, Brazil.

Speaker A: Poland. Gary, you're right. My next question was all about the Republic islands national anthem. So that's recovered that. Brilliant. But did Tomatsky play for Poland that afternoon or evening in goal? The goalkeeper who Brian Clough infamously or famously said he was a clown of a goalkeeper, but he wasn't, was he?

Speaker B: Oh, he was a very good keeper. But I mean, you know, we beat them one nil. So to everyone in Ireland, to us and everyone in Ireland, we were better than England. But it's a difference. There's a big difference between when you've got to do it and when it's a friendly sort of thing, you know, is you don't. You don't put the foot in as much. So indeed you don't.

Speaker A: Yeah. And that England game against Poland, that Tobiaski goal, he was just magnificent, wasn't he?

Speaker B: Stopped everything. He stopped everything.

Speaker A: Incredible.

Speaker B: We beat one nil and obviously everyone was pleasers. Punch. And when you think we played two games in two. Two seriously, top flight games in two days.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Takes a lot.

Speaker A: So he does both mentally and physically, I should imagine so. That's an incredible thing. Wouldn't happen these days, would it?

Speaker B: I was on a high, though. So we all.

Speaker A: Excellent.

Speaker B: Wonderful.

Speaker A: And of course, memorably, Terry, your one international goal came at the Maracana stadium. In a friendly against Brazil ahead of the 1974 FIFA World cup in West Germany. So tell us about this match against Brazil with the famous Maracana stadium and, of course, your goal. Fabulous. That's a huge memory.

Speaker B: Well, I was. I mean, we flew out to South America. We flew into Rio, we went from London to France. We had to go to Paris. We got to go down from Paris and change planes and fly down direct to Rio. We played. We got beat two one. Pele played. And just being on the field with Pele was like. Was unbelievable. And then he didn't score and I scored our goal. Free kick. Jonah Jarzy knocked it in and I came and bombed my first and only international goal. And as I went back over the halfway line, Pelle never came back to mark me. I ran past him and whispered, where were you?

Speaker A: Nothing. No reply.

Speaker B: But then. But I'll finish the story simply because it goes on to America. But years later, I then played in the Los Angeles Aztecs and we played New York Cosmos and Pele was playing for them and he said, so we played him in LA. We beat them three one. I scored again and he didn't score. So now I'm as brave as a lion. Now I don't care. Halfway line. I looked straight at him, I went, well, where were you then? I like that. He does understand me. It's okay. Two, three weeks later, we played them in New York. They beat us five two. And as he turned out of the box, having scored his hat trick, he looked at me and said, where were you?

Speaker A: I said, don't get mad, get even. What a fantastic story.

Speaker B: But, you know, we sat, we had a good drink afterwards and it was great. Brilliant man.

Speaker A: Brilliant, brilliant man. Lovely fellow, wasn't he, Pelle? Completely. Not just a great football player, but a sensational human being as well, wasn't he? Good humour. Fantastic. And then in your last international appearance for the Republic of Ireland in a free nil win, I hasten to add, over the Soviet Union in October 1974, you were sent off. Can you remember what happened to you? I mean, sendings off in those days were quite rare, weren't they?

Speaker B: They were. I mean, it was the only sending off I had in my whole career. So, like, 20 year career, I had 19 year career, I had one sending off and it was there. But we. We were two nil up. We were tuning up and I was coming, going up for corners and free kicks, as I did all the time. And I'd got up and knocked one down for Don Gibbons, who got the hat trick on the day and he knocked one in and every time I went up for a free kick, the big centre half Koplichny came to mark me, or decided eventually to come and mark me. Yes. And while we were waiting for the ball to be delivered into the box, he punched me in the ribs and I just walked away. I never liked to show I was hurt. He walked away and he followed me across the box and did exactly the same again.

Speaker A: Really.

Speaker B: I just turned around and knocked him spark out and walked off the pitch. When he recovered, the referee had seen him do it and sent him off as well. So we went down to ten men, both sides, but they were the top team in the world in those days. Russia were the top team. Winning 30 in the european championships was quite a feat for Dublin.

Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah. The old Soviet Union, as it was then, back in the days, the federation of. Yeah, big country then, wasn't it?

Speaker B: They were tough guys and they tried it out on me and it didn't work. Well, good for you, Terrence.

Speaker A: Good to hear a bit of british spirit over there in the old Soviet Union. Loved it. It's like to hear that.

Speaker B: Bit of irish spirit.

Speaker A: A bit of irish spirit. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I've got to get that right because, yeah, Republic of Ireland's a different state altogether. Thanks for correcting me there, Terry, but it's. Yeah, bit of irish spirit. Well done. Brilliant for you. Then. You signed for Arsenal in October 1974 for actually 20,000 pounds, which doesn't seem like a lot of money, I have to say. Having made your debut against West Ham United on the 26 October 1974, you played for Arsenal for two seasons, I think, recording 62 appearances, and captain the famous Gunners until 1976. That's no mean defeat, is it? So, Terry, you did play for Arsenal. That's the night that the show script. So what are your most memorable moments at Highbury? Both hybrid away, of course, too well.

Speaker B: I mean, the mere fact they came in for me, I mean, they were bottom of the league when I signed for them. I think it was end of October, 24 October, something like that. And I from. They were bottom of the first division and they were struggling. They signed a big centre half called Jeff Blockley for 250,000 pound. And it hadn't worked. It hadn't worked for him, it hadn't worked for Arsenal and they were bottom of the league. Bobby Campbell, who coach had been my coach at QPR, was now coach to Bertie mee at Arsenal. And we also had Alan Ball. Best, greatest players ever for England in the world. He was my roommate at Qpr, and he, you know, he was on more money than anyone else at that stage. And some of the old, the older players, John Radford, Etcetera, Charlie George got a little bit upset and so the dressing room was in a little bit of a turmoil, bit of split. There was a split. So the dressing room needed to be pulled together. The team needed to be pulled together. Blockley, unfortunately, didn't work for them. So Bobby Campbell had suggested me to Bodhi meader. I could do both jobs. I could fill in for a couple of seasons, two or three seasons, and help a young David O'Leary come through, and also that I would pull the dressing room together. So hopefully, for me, it all worked out. And David O'Leary went on to play 700 games, I think it was. Yeah, I played. I took the big guy all the time, took the biggest strong center forward and allowed him to sort of do what he did best and went on to have a. Hold on a second, I've got something here that's. I've got to get rid of. Hold on. Okay, so. But I. That was something that, you know, was brilliant. I loved every. Every minute of playing for them. They were sensational team. Absolutely.

Speaker A: They were indeed. I think you had said at the time as well, and I quote, I really felt I had arrived when I stepped out of Highbury for my first home game and then spent the next two seasons with Arsenal, playing with some of the greatest names in the game. Now, we'll name them here because they are fantastic players. Alan Ball, which you've previously mentioned already, of course. Terry. Liam Brady. There's a name that conjures up some magic.

Speaker B: David O'Leary, very good French. Still a very good friend of mine. We've eaten dried wine and dine together now. Great. Brilliant.

Speaker A: Liam, fantastic. You'll have to invite him on the show here after this as well. Terry. We'll get Liam Brady on. There you go. You're good friends with him. And we've got David O'Leary, Frank Stapleton. I mean, they're huge icons in football, aren't they, Taylor? All playing for Arsenal.

Speaker B: They were all youngsters, not so much, but, I mean, David O'Leary, Frank Stapleton, John Devine, Graham Ricks were all coming through at that stage. Chippy Liam Brady. So they had a youngish side. So where they struggled, they needed, just needed that couple of seasons to gel, to get together. And then they made three FA cup finals on a spin. 78, 79 and 80, I think it was.

Speaker A: They did enjoy.

Speaker B: And so they then they went on to do other things as well, win many, many things. So I was just bought for a couple of seasons to help suckle inside or go through the change. I did what I did and it was perfect. So lovely for me, too, because they were a side that if you get the opportunity, you never turn down the Arsenal.

Speaker A: No, indeed. And you didn't. And you did play for them. It's fantastic. What a great story. However, after Arsenal's worst performance in over 40 years in the english first division, 17th, they finished in 75 76. The Arsenal manager then Bertie Mee, resigned. You were deemed surplus to requirements, Terry being at nearly 34 at the time, by Bertie Mee's replacement, Terry Neal. And a great manager he was, too. And you were released on a free transfer in September 1976. You joined my club, Terry Aldershot football club, and played a single season with them. So please tell us about your disappointment of being released by Arsenal. First, of course, but then the joy of joining Aldershot.

Speaker B: Well, I. There is a story. There is a story to this, because I played for QPR against Hull, sit Hull many times, and Terry Neil was their player manager. And in the QPR side, we were not only a good team, we had a. Quite a lot of. Plenty of wind up merchants, plenty of people who could wind people up or good enough to wind people up and get away with it. And whenever we played, whenever we played Hull, Terry Neal was one of the unfortunate people who got wound up very easily. And we got him sent off once, might have been twice. A player manager got sent off because we wound him up. And he don't know what he got sent off for, but he did. So when he eventually. When I then joined Arsenal and had the two years and two and two and a bit years there, Bertie Mee resigned. I think that was the word. He resigned and they appointed Terry Neal as manager. I knew that wasn't going to be good for me. And we. We parked in the car park his first day in, and he got out of his car and as he walked past me, he went. He just walked straight past me, went, you won't be here long. And that was it. Two weeks, three weeks, months, what, at most, I was gone, so I wasn't required. He didn't want me. And so I stepped away. I saw at that stage then, I'd agreed to go to Los Angeles, playing Los LA for LA Aztecs with George Best, Charlie Cook, Ron Davis, Phil Beal. And I needed to stay fit. I needed to stay fit and match fit. So I signed a short contract with autisthot. We were then in fourth division, I think they were indeed, yes. To play for six months. So that was what I did. And then I popped off in April, I think it was. I popped off to America, in Los Angeles.

Speaker A: Yeah. You did say, I think, on an interview on the London weekend television show. Was it the big match? You did actually say on there on an interview that surprisingly the fourth division football at Aldershot and the clubs you were playing against as well in the fourth division wasn't a huge difference from that of the first division. Obviously, the grounds were bigger, the atmosphere would be a lot different. That's quite a surprising statement. Is that true, do you think, Terry?

Speaker B: No, I probably exaggerated a little bit. I exaggerated a bit. But you've got to remember that in those days, you look at the pictures today, you look at the pictures today, they are carpet, they are simulation. They are a pleasure to walk out and play on. In my day, in those days, the pitches were a ****** disgrace. I mean, they were mud from within a few weeks of the season starting. It was. It was. You played in mud for the whole period? For the whole season. You know, you play like they knock it around today, nice and comfortably and easy. You would spending most of your time concentrating on controlling the ball because it was all over the place. So they. We weren't helped a lot by the groundsmen, who obviously did as good a job as they possibly could. Pitches were just not. Were made like they are today.

Speaker A: Yeah. And of course, on the other fact here as well, when you played at Arsenal, before you moved to Aldershot and Arsenal's ground, of course, or the pitch was probably one of the smallest pitches, like a postage stamp, and then go to Aldershot, which was the second largest pitch in the Football league. It was very wide pitch at Aldershot, wasn't it? At the time, was.

Speaker B: That's why I probably did well at Arsenal and not so well at Autoshot. There was more running to do at Aldershot than it was at Arsenal.

Speaker A: Yes, absolutely.

Speaker B: But no, I mean, I never knew that at the time. But it doesn't surprise me because Arsenal knocked it around a lot more than auto shot did. It was more. Everything was long ball, long ball, long ball. But we. You know, I enjoyed my period and my time there. I mean, I played with Neil Warnock.

Speaker A: Yes. What a great man Neil was.

Speaker B: We went on to manage everyone.

Speaker A: He did.

Speaker B: I had a period there with Neil. So he was a decent player.

Speaker A: Yes. Did you ever play in the same side auto shot? With Jack. How, if Big Jack Howarthe.

Speaker B: Jack Howard, Neil Warnock. Yeah, there was one other. It was one that was one other quite famous name now. Can't think of it was now. But anyway. But they were there, both of them. I played with both of them because.

Speaker A: Jack Howard was a character, wasn't he? You'd have got well with Jack, I'm sure. Great character.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: Amazing.

Speaker B: I was only there a short period I, you know, because I'd already agreed to go to LA to play for Los Angeles and their season started in April. So I left. Tommy McEnany was the manager of. I left early and went off to America.

Speaker A: Fantastic. I had the experience, actually, of going on out for a few drinks one evening with Big Jack Howarth, going back a few years ago anyway, 2008, I think. And he always called me kiddo. And what an experience that was, though, drinking Big Jack, because, my God, could he drink. He was a serious player, wasn't he? And in both world, be both the football world and the drinking world.

Speaker B: Absolutely fantastic.

Speaker A: Gentleman.

Speaker B: Big guy, send it forward. Big tough guy, send the ball. Which all said, most center for those days, they were all big, strong guys. But is he still around?

Speaker A: Yeah, he's still around. I met up with. Yeah, he stood about. I met up with Jack at Aldershot two seasons ago, I think in 2022. Yeah, I met up with Jack. I will do. I'll be down this season to see them because I'm good friends with Terry Owens, as you know, at Aldershot. So Jack's often around these days, so I will. I'll give him my regards when I see him next. Lovely fella.

Speaker B: There was a little story there, but I can't remember. It take too long for me to put it back together then. But there was a story about when I was there, but forget it. Go on.

Speaker A: Not a problem. Let's just drop back into your Los Angeles Aztecs piece. And in the NAsl, of course, in America, George best. I mean, you played in that side with George Best. What an amazing player he was. I mean, what was he like generally? To play with and to be with and socialize with whilst you're out in America? That's some story, isn't it?

Speaker B: Absolutely. He was my roommate there on the wait trips, on the away trips.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: He was my roommate there. So I got on very well with George. But we had. We had great fun. We had great fun in America. We did very well. We had a. We had a super side as Phil Beal, Ron Davis, Charlie Cook. So we were. We were great. So we were a great social team. We got to the semi final of the championships, as they called it out there then, and unfortunately got beat by Mike England's Seattle Sounders.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: But being in the company of George and Charlie in those days, I mean in La Hermosa beach where we all more or less congregated and lived, we had some very, very, very good times and nights.

Speaker A: I can fully understand it with those players, Terry, I certainly can. Fantastic players, of course, and you could even relate that back to because I know you're good friends of Alan Hudson as well, aren't you? And of course the great. And late now, sadly, Peter, so all very good sociable individuals.

Speaker B: I mean, we had a. There was a bar, George. George ended up buying a bar, owning a bar in La Mosa beach and that was obviously our meeting point. But there was also another bar that we frequented before he got his. It was a bar called Fat Face Fenner's Falun. Oh no. Fat face Fenner's Falun. And that was our. That was our bar. That was our meeting place and we had some sensational times there. My son was born in America, in LA, and he now lives and works in LA as an actor's agent. So I just spoke to him an hour or two ago. So getting up to go to work.

Speaker A: So what experience living in Los Angeles, what? You're America. Fantastic.

Speaker B: It was. We had. We had eight months there and we traveled all over from the east coast, west coast, up north, down south.

Speaker A: Great experience.

Speaker B: It was hugely enjoyable and a different, different way of life. Totally.

Speaker A: I can totally imagine that. Totally imagine that. And with those great, great friends and players too. What a time that was. But of course these good times always come to an end. And you did retire in 19, 1979, I believe, with your experience in Los Angeles Aztecs. And you did say at the time, Terry, and I quote, I felt I had worked hard enough and achieved more than most would have fought, certainly with the limitations I had as a player. So, Terry, what limitations did you believe you had? I mean, captain Arsenal playing in those great Queens Park Rangers and Arsenal sides with all those great players, plus playing with George Best, of course, one of the best and iconic players in the world, if not the best player of all time. Doesn't reflect too many limitations, does it?

Speaker B: Well, I never. I honestly never ever dreamt that I could achieve. I never, in the first place, I never thought about being a footballer.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: It wasn't top of my list of jobs and certainly not the old man never wanted me to be a footballer. I had to stay and work in the pub. That was a job. He said, you know, he always considered football. That's just a game, this is work. And that's why I sat to work every night the week while still training and playing Watford. And that's the only escape I had, was when I left and signed a contract and go to South Africa. That was my escape club. I now had to do that to achieve what I did eventually achieve. But I never dreamt what I never dreamt of what I could achieve or what I could be. I had to escape from the business, if you like, to find out me, to find what I had and what ability I had. And it turned out I surprised myself that I achieved more than I expected of myself.

Speaker A: So that's very honest opinion, I have to say, a very honest opinion.

Speaker B: And I was pleasantly surprised that I managed to achieve more than I ever expected.

Speaker A: Well, that's good. You look back on life, can't you now, you know, as a man, as an ex football player, and enjoy those moments because relive them in your own mind as well. And of course, telling them on my show here, which is fantastic, it's been recorded. Incredible, incredible, incredible life you've had, Terry, in football, you really have. And as well, I'm sure you did. And as well as playing during the early seventies, you were an occasional presenter on London weekend televisions. The big match, an iconic show, this was too, alongside the great. And of course, now, of course, Brian Moore, when the program, in an attempt to distance itself from the more staid match of the day, or BBC one, experimented with using current players as presenters. You must have enjoyed being a presenter on a big match, Tony. That's an iconic show, wasn't it?

Speaker B: I did it three times. I did three times. I've gone on very well with Brian Moore. Wasn't difficult, obviously. No, but we got on very well together and I got the opportunity to host it or be part of it on three occasions, I think it was, which was an iconic chapter where other players started to get jobs started within tv. Now, once you finished playing thirties, if you were lucky to last that life, you then had to go looking for a job and you rock up somewhere for a job and they said, well, what do you do? You know, I'll play football. No, but what do you do mid thirties, you know, you're back down to the bottom rung again. Because if you don't, all you know is football. If you. If you walk into a builders merchants, you know, you've got to learn everything from a start. Again, it's very difficult. It wasn't jobs for everyone now. Tv, radio. Oh, yes, jobs galore now. So, you know, good luck to him. I mean, I'm not holding any grudges against that, but. But I found things that I could do and I ended up being successful in other ways. So I'm very helpful. I'm very glad myself.

Speaker A: Absolutely. You say you should too be too, Terry. And of course, a lot of players, and I mentioned this one because of your background as well. A lot of players used to end up buying pubs or running pubs, didn't they? You know, some not so successfully, shall we say. And I remember a pub that. That Peter Osgood was running with another player. And in Windsor, the bill were coming through the door, or debt collector coming for the front door, they'd run out the back door. It was as simple as that, you know. So a lot of players would. Would go into the pub industry, which you could have done because you were trained.

Speaker B: I did, I did. Because once I. Once I finished playing, as I said, what was I going to do? It wasn't the jobs, tv, radio, whatever that I could. That you could step into or was offered, because at that stage then my stepfather, he wanted to get out of the pub he'd been in all his life. So he said, look, you've got no business. You've got no job to do. This is a very successful business, which it was. It was busiest pub in west London. Live music seven nights a week. He said, this is. You can. You can go on from here and do all sorts. So I ended up having to pay him 5000 pounds of. To take over his part of the pub.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker B: Ended up running the pub for 14 years.

Speaker A: Successful and successfully too.

Speaker B: Correct.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Well done. Brilliant. And, of course, a lot of other players. There's a story that I can relate to here. Some. A lot. Some players, of course, dropped into opening sports shops, that kind of thing. And there's a pair of brothers I'll mention on the show here in particular. The Berry brothers, Manchester United, of course, the George Berry and Peter Berry, of course, who played for Ipswich and Crystal palace. They opened up a sports shop in Farnborough, of all places. And back in the day, I was good friends with Charlie Mortimer and John Mortimer, of course, we played for Chelsea John Mortimer. And they recommended me that I go to the Berry brothers shop, see Peter and George, if he was there, and get all my boots in my kit. And you'll get excellent discounts because you know us. And that's what I did. I used to go to the Berry brothers in Farnborough, get all my football boots, have a great chat with Peter Barry. He was usually there and get a huge discount, almost giveaway. It was fantastic. So, yeah, I mean, it's.

Speaker B: I mean, the connections you can get in, in life if you're lucky and you use them wisely, you know, help. You can help you go forward. I mean, it happened to me. So I, you know, then I ran the pub. I had the pub. It was a nighttime pub, so obviously open during the day. But I then started to do coaching. I was coaching full and Fulham's youth team, which went on, most of them signed pro forms and went on to become great players. Paul Parker was one, Dean Kony was another. I took through the youth team period, through the reserves. I played with them in the reserves. I was in like mid, mid forties. It was easier to coach playing with them on the pitch than it was to stand on the line shouting and screaming at them. So. And they went on to have great careers and I was very proud of that part.

Speaker A: Absolutely. And of course, the shouting and screaming from the sidelines are dugouts. Well, you know, as well as I do, you know, I was up at. I was up at Ellen Road last week and you're sitting in those really low dugouts, you don't see the play. And if you're shouting at your team that's on the opposite side of the pitch, they can't hear you with the atmosphere. So that's very difficult, isn't it? So a lot of body language goes into it, you know, hand movements and, and to get the messages out there. So it's quite an interesting thing that. So, yeah, we'll come on to. Yeah, we'll come on to your coaching days as well, but later on because there's a nice little story there as well. But in November 1974, you judged the children's photograph competition in London with the great Kenneth Williams, you know, and others. I mean, Kenneth Williams, the star of all those carry on films diary entry for that day includes, and I will quote this to a great, great, great quote. When he, you, Terry, left, he said to me, I could stay here all night talking to you. I'd like to meet you again. This could go on forever as far as I'm concerned. And Kenneth Williams was so pleased, flattered and touched and said more than I've been for years. We've had some complimentary. Do you remember working with Kenneth Williams as a judge on the children's photograph competition.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I was captain of Arsenal at the time and they. I think it was a baby's and pictures. We decided who was going to. Who was the prettiest baby or whatever it was. I think that was something like that. And I was. I was asked, as Arsenal captain to judge it with Kenneth Williams, and he was great company. I mean. I mean, I'd only ever seen on tv, but it made the cracks, the wise jokes, and we got on great because I was a little bit of a storyteller myself and. And we got on famously. And I said I could. And that was it. I just said I could be here all afternoon. We could go on forever. So then he made that comment afterwards.

Speaker A: So he did, yeah, and a lovely, lovely comment to have made. And I can remember, of course, we all can, the carry on films and, you know, Kenneth Williams and the Hattie Jake setups in those films, they were just absolutely hysterical, weren't they?

Speaker B: That's exactly how he was. That's exactly how he was when. When he spoke to you. Such.

Speaker A: Yes, just playing himself, I guess, in the films, which is quite, quite sensational. So is there any stories from that particular children's photograph competition? You can.

Speaker B: No, no, no, other than. Other than that was the. I mean, once more after that. But no, there was no. There were no stories in. In that respect. He was very much kept himself to himself. He enjoyed the couple of days we spent judging the, the finalists, and we got on very well together. But I never. I bumped into him once other time. One other time, but no, we never. We never kept a relationship up or anything. No.

Speaker A: Do you never had a glass of beer or wine with him after the show or anything like that? Wasn't that kind of.

Speaker B: I never drank in those days.

Speaker A: That's good to hear, Terry. That really is. I'm sure Alan Hudson will tell me differently, but that's another story because, as you know, I'm meeting up with Alan in Tenerife in September, maybe October, so.

Speaker B: Give him my best. He's a good drinking buddies you were.

Speaker A: And of course, I said to you before, you're more than welcome to come and join us as well. It'd be great because we are going to do a show in the official Queen's Park Rangers bar of the. Of the Canary Islands, which happens to be in Tenerife and run by a good friend of mine, Pete. Peter or Pete. So, yeah, you're more than welcome to come to the QPR bar and do the evening with Alan Hudson. And we could also do Alan Hudson and Terry yourself as well.

Speaker B: You never know.

Speaker A: Let's see, let's see. We'll talk about it as the weeks go by. Brilliant. And, of course, after retiring from the game in 1978, we've already touched on this. But you coached several teams and I believe one of those teams was Fulham, which you correctly said earlier on in the show before eventually leaving football together and running a variety of businesses. So, firstly, how did the coaching go? I mean, Jerry painting did tell me this week you were an incredible coach at Fulham. I mean, that's an accolade, isn't it?

Speaker B: That's very impressive, Jerry, just to say that we had our moments, him and I, you know, he was. He was a very good goalkeeper. It's like you don't realize what managers and coaches going through when you. You look a bit lazy when you don't turn up on the day and you're not whatever, and they've got to wind you up, chew you up and whatever. So, you know, there were, there were days when you were arguing and fighting with them and days when you were patting them on the back and saying, well done. So coaching and management are different, different types of people to what you are as a player. So, I mean, I enjoyed, I enjoyed. I took on a. Bobby Campbell approached me. He said, you're wasting. He came in the pub and he said to me one day, he said, you're wasting him. Wasted. So he said, he said, I've got a very young youth team, good players coming through. He said, you'd be perfect bringing them through into the reserves and going on from there. So I said, I can't. I got a pub to run. I can't do. Listen, he said, come and do a couple of hours. That's all. Just doing a couple of hours a day. And so I did, I did a couple of hours a day and thoroughly enjoyed it and got on so much so that when they, at the end of their youth team period, they all went on to sign pro forms, went into and got into the reserves. He said, no. He said, I need you to see them through the reserve team level. So I said, I can't. I've got a pub to run. I ended up signing a contract for two years with Fulham and still running the pub. So I would split between here, there and everywhere. So I'd gone back to being working forever.

Speaker A: That's not a bad thing. It keeps you active, doesn't it? Mentally and physically. It's a good thing to do. I always say I'll never retire as well, Terry, so, you know. Right.

Speaker B: Bobby was very accommodating as well, because, you know. You know, because he knew that I had to get away, you know, I didn't. Couldn't spend time sitting, talking and whatever. So he gave me that opportunity.

Speaker A: He did. And Bobby Campbell, of course, knew everybody in football. He was a fantastic individual, wasn't he? Bobby Campbell. And I can remember him well and his days at Chelsea, you know. Well, loved the Chelsea football club. Bobby Campbell, for his time there. Lovely. He was a gentleman, wasn't he? And he knew his.

Speaker B: He knew his football, knew his job. He knew his job, yes, exactly. His wife lives around the corner from me here, so, yeah.

Speaker A: Oh, that's nice. That's good. So what other businesses did you run to? We've talked about the past, but I picked up when I did the research. Businesses. So was there any other businesses you tapped into, of course, that you may be still involved with?

Speaker B: I had. No, not. I had sandwich bars in the late norian and QPR days. I had two sandwich bars up in Victoria. I had a latest hairdressers. Oh, wow. Latticey. And then I went on afterwards and I took over the pub and they gave up all the other things and then I ended up. Oh, clothes shop. Yes.

Speaker A: Oh, clothes shop as well.

Speaker B: No, I had three clothes shops. One in Kingston, one in Reigate and one in Brighton. Wow. Thank you, love. Forgot that. Yeah, I did. I had three retail shops, clothing, and then after that. And I've been involved in the travel industry for 30 years now. Now run. And have run for 29 of those years. The footballers golf classic.

Speaker A: Fantastic. And what players are part of the golf classic? Have you got any great members there to join in?

Speaker B: Everyone you can name, every footballer you can name who's a golfer has played in the.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: We've just said it was three weeks ago in Portugal. Was held in Portugal this year. Pat Jennings, my oldest mate in football, because I played with him at Watford.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Liam Brady, Gareth Barry. Who won it this year? Bruce Groblar. Oh, I can never remember the names off the top of me, but every player that you can imagine, Teddy Sheringham, the lot, they all play, all come to play in it and all those in the past have come to play in it as well. So very, very pleased and very happy to get the momentum.

Speaker A: Does Glenn Hoddle still play golf? Because I know he was into golf.

Speaker B: Glenn was manager of England. Started off doing this. He was manager of England and he came and played the first couple of events in the event. He loved his golf he still loves his golf. I still bump into him every now and again.

Speaker A: Yeah, because I had a story, because I know quite a lot of his ex teammates at Tottenham, and the story came out that his injuries as a football player stopped him from getting around the golf course a little bit these days, especially the 18 hole golf courses. So I expect he uses a buggy, I guess. But is that a true story? You know, obviously.

Speaker B: Well, we all use buggies if they're available, but if they're not, he still walks around. He still walks around once or twice a year. And he's a good golfer. It's a far better golfer than I am.

Speaker A: Well, certainly you all far better golfers than me, Terry, that's for sure. So with all this, what's next in the world of Terry Manson? You've done so much in your life, is there anything you're sort of seeing in the future to say, well, you know what, Terry? I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that. Is there anything that you could see on that periphery on the horizon?

Speaker B: Coming up to 82 now, and you.

Speaker A: Don'T look 82, you don't sound 82, Terry. So you've got years left.

Speaker B: I had a shave this morning, so. But I mean, now I'm, you know, I'm looking to slow down completely. And it's. And I had done. I was doing many, many others, you know, was traveling the world, taking events all over the world, Barbados, Bermuda's, Dubai, Qatar, Cape Town. I've been doing events, traveling the world for years and years and years, and it's been great, thoroughly fantastic experience. A lot of footballers away with me and a lot of nice people as well.

Speaker A: So you've had an interesting life, you really have. And as I say to many people, I've said it on the show before, you know, travel is by far the best investment anybody can make. Go and visit places, see, meet people, see the different cultures. It's fantastic, isn't it? It's a great experience.

Speaker B: Absolutely. I've thoroughly enjoyed everyone, everywhere I've been and everyone I've taken on those trips, and there's been. I've got some clientele that have been on most everyone. I've been taken around the world and they all thoroughly enjoy it. Football is a great company with great stories. If you get them on your own in the bar or at the side of a pool and sit there, they natter and tell you all the stories.

Speaker A: All day, they will. That's my experience, too, when I meet various players, as I do, fantastic experience. Well, you know, we've had a great show, Terry. We've hit the hour mark, so that's fantastic as well. You wouldn't believe it, would you? It's time to discuss the fight. Didn't realize I could talk that much. You're almost as bad as me. I can talk for England. And so can you turn. I'm sure that if we were to meet up and have a drink over a glass of wine or something in a bar, we'd have a great laugh together. We really would. We talk about many things together. We really would.

Speaker B: That's fantastic on the show.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely right. Yeah. And some blue words too, I'm sure. But as always on the world of Lord Russell podcast talk show, we could talk forever, Terry. I'm absolutely convinced we could. About your life in a top professional football, domestically and internationally too. It's been a huge pleasure, as always. And as always, the pleasure is all mine. And of course the show's audience when the podcast is released on the world of Lord Russell podcast talk show and the Lord Russell Baker YouTube channel later on today or tomorrow morning. So thank you, Terry. Ladies and gentlemen, I'll give you Terry Mancini, a big clap of the hands there. It's been a fantastic show. Great talking to you. Please stay on if you don't mind, just for a few minutes whilst I wrap up. So a quick chat afterwards, if you don't mind, if that's okay. The next episode on the world of Lord Russell podcast talk show is I had no choice where my special guest would be Tony de Rigo, who is an australian former professional footballer, sports pundit and co commentator. As a player, Tony Derigo was a defender applying his trade from 1983 through to 2001. Tony del Rigo had lengthy spells in the old first division for both Aston Villa and Chelsea before signing with Leeds United in 1991 where he won the first division title and went on to feature in the Premier League from 1992 to 1997. Tony Derigo had later had spells in series b with Torino before returning to the top flight english football with Derby county. Despite being born and raised in Australia, Tony Derrigo represented the England national team, winning 15 caps. Tony Derrigo was also capped at England under 21 and England B team level two. Tony Rodrigo retired in the Football League with Stoke City in 2001. Since there, since retirement, Tony Derrico has worked in media and has worked as a pundit and commentator for Eurosport, Bravo, Channel five, ESPN and Sky Sports. And I was with Tony last week at Ellen Road, Leeds United. So we had a great conversation. And of course, I'm looking forward to seeing you all on the inside. So until then, it's a revoir from him and au revoir from me.