One Golden Nugget: A Business and Sport Success Story by John Attridge

The World of Lord Russell Podcast Talk Show proudly presents "One Golden Nugget," where we  explore the extraordinary journey of John Attridge, a distinguished British and #Global #businessman, #entrepreneur, and #Cricket #Umpire at the highest level. 

With over forty years of experience, John Attridge has established himself as a dynamic entrepreneur and a key figure in business development and trade brokerage.

John is renowned for his ability to uncover untapped potential within companies, playing a crucial role in guiding businesses towards sustainable growth and successful outcomes. 

Tune in to uncover the harmonious blend of business expertise and sporting finesse, illustrating how these domains synergize to create a thriving and enduring partnership.

#businessleadership #entrepreneurship #sportsindustry #podcastinterview #cricket #umpire #businessgrowth #businesstips 

Transcript

Lord Russell Baker: Welcome to the world of Lord Russell Podcast talk show and today's show is one golden nugget which captures the life of a British and global businessman entrepreneur plus a cricket umpire at the highest level, bringing both business and sport together as a perfect and established partnership.

A career spanning more than 40 years. He has established himself as a dynamic entrepreneur and leader in the business development and trade brokerage sectors. Renowned for his ability to unlock hidden potential in business,

he has been instrumental in building companies towards sustainable growth and successful exits. Yes folks, it gives me immense pleasure to welcome on the show John Attridge. Welcome to the show, John.

John Attridge: Thanks, Russell, and it's my pleasure to be here. I even got the right colors for your book and whatnot, so I thought that might blend in and be part of the show.

Lord Russell Baker: Always good to see orange is my branding, as you know. John, great stuff wearing the orange today, it's superb. So I'll tell you what, let's start at the very beginning, John, your journey into the business world began in Australia, of course, your homeland, where you laid a strong academic foundation at La Trobe University,

studying economics, politics,

mathematics and English. What a tremendous start in life. So please tell us more about these early university days, John.

John Attridge: Yeah, well, I had to include English in that because I didn't know later in my life I'd actually moved to England and it became a useful language to have over here too.

So when people ask, you know, am I multilingual? Yes, I can speak Australian and English, but I did do economics based on,

you know, I loved economics at high school and my teacher was a brilliant guy,

loved this topic. And then it became a natural segue after I completed my year,

what do you call it, year 12 here, went to university and people asked me why was I studying economics and I said, I got no idea, I just like the subject.

And little was it known that it was absolutely useless for the first 13 years of my career, but it became very obvious during the period. So it's quite often interesting when you start with something.

It might not be clear at the time that you did it, but it certainly has become vital as life has progressed.

Lord Russell Baker: Yes, indeed. That's really worked your life today, that's for sure. There's no doubt about that.

Your professional journey commenced in 1976 with MLC Life Limited, I understand,

one of Australia's largest life insurance companies.

You began as a commission only sales agent, a role that would set the stage for your future success.

Now, there must be some interesting stories, John, here and moments that you can share with us, John? Must be. Surely.

John Attridge: Well,

was an interesting thing when I took a segue or took a break out of university,

I had to do something. My dad was a dairy farmer and I couldn't sit there doing nothing as you do. So they went off to America for a couple of months.

So my dad had a saying that says nothing, like with endurance,

with like the man who sells insurance.

And he, he was very much against it as a concept.

So I was working for Coca Cola at the time, you know, not the md, but I was mending pallets and working on the bottle washing machine.

Having come out of university and just picked up something that I got along with,

I quickly realized that corporate life wasn't for me. I'm only joking.

So I went along to the local dole office and said, what's on? And the guy said, well, we've got absolutely nothing. And I said, what do you mean nothing? He said,

no, there's. I said, but you know, universe, no, it doesn't matter, you know, there's no. Jobs abound. And I was walking out the door and I saw this thing says, wanted life insurance rep,

MLC Life. So I got it off the wall, took it back to him and said, what he means is nothing. What, what's this?

And he said, oh, that's commission only. You don't want to do that. And I said, what's commission only mean? He said, you only get paid when you sell stuff. And I said, what if you sell a lot of stuff?

And here was this little guy and I'm throughout everybody that's got glasses and it's very slimly built, which is not me, but this little weedy guy with glasses, that was a career.

A career advisor,

as some of them are in the public service probably cemented my skepticism and doubting as to 82% of the people who work in the public service, but that's another issue.

And so anyway, I just bowled up, got the job started Monday and within five months I was earning more than my dad, who was operating a dairy farm. Now my only regret, people ask me, John, have you got regrets in life?

There's only one regret is that I didn't go back to that guy and wave my commission check in his face. Cause that's probably more money than he'd earned in 10 years.

But anyway, that was a side story. So that's how I ended up at MLC Life.

Lord Russell Baker: Oh, that's a fantastic story though, isn't it? I mean, it's really, really, really brilliant in some ways. You noticed A job on the wall that he wasn't prepared to offer you.

And there you were,

earning more money than your father could ever see after a few months. That's just brilliant. But also MLC life.

Your natural talent for sales and leadership quickly became APP.

And by 1979 you had been promoted to superintendent of a regional team. And this was at just 23 years old. I mean, that's just amazing. You were the youngest person in the company's 100 year history to hold such a position.

Wow. I mean, that's some achievement, John, isn't it? You must be proud of yourself and your dad. You must be proud.

John Attridge: Yeah, I think eventually he came around,

but yeah, it was,

it just became something no one ever teaches you at school.

Anything to do with sales. And if I've got one thing that I'd like to do left on my radar, be love to open up a university section of some kind that, that taught people, budding entrepreneurs and people coming through the education system on the better ways to run business and including that in sales.

Because every,

every business relies on sales and yet one of the reasons that most businesses fail is a lack of sales, so.

Lord Russell Baker: Exactly.

John Attridge: Yeah. So I got promoted and I had a natural affinity. I don't think MLC training was great.

They had a lot of fantastic people that came along that over the course of the years that I've actually caught up with in later Life.

People like Dr. Feelgood,

Phil Jauncy,

he was the first sports psychologist when no one ever even thought, what was that?

And yeah, fascinating guy. And I've known him for 40 odd years and I actually interviewed him on my Quantum show during COVID So people like Brian Tracy, who most people will have heard of, who's just a sales guru, the writer of Eat that Frog, the book.

Yeah, what a magnificent guy. And through MLC they brought internationally renowned people through the system. Dr. Alan Peace, who I became a personal friend of during my time at the Life Underwriters association because as I was rising through the MLC ranks, he was my equivalent at national neutral.

So there's a guy that's written, I don't know, 40 million books and was sold 40 million books and the body language guru.

And these were all people that I met through MLC life. So they had very good sales, structured training and you know, that,

that I became good at, I enjoyed doing and that then morphed into sales management by recruiting, mentoring, maintaining, motivating a team of guys, you know, and I took over a region that was downtrodden in New South Wales.

It was, I think MLC at the time had something like 120 branches and it was the bottom 20.

And by the time I left that branch three, four years later, it was in the top three.

Lord Russell Baker: That's incredible really, isn't it John? Because this all happened in 1985 and your career took another significant leap which you just suggested when you were appointed as the state sales manager of the New South Wales Southern region and you were leading a team of 700 to 850 representatives.

So it's qu a large team. You were responsible for driving the region's sales growth. A challenge you met with characteristic determination and strategic insight. And I know you John, so this is absolutely true.

Your leadership during this period solidified your reputation as a rising star in the business world. So there was no holding you back, John was there? You grabbed it with every opportunity, took every opportunity you could.

That's incredible.

John Attridge: And I got put through some very good management training systems by MLC because at that time time MLC got bought out by Lend Lease Corporation and they were this massive company, you know, mlc, Lend Lease, you know, their sidearms, built Wembley, that sort of stuff.

They got a building and construction side and you know, it was just a massive corporate. The downside to all that, it lost the family feel that MLC had been, you know, 100 odd, 100 year old company old years and they used to have, you know, foundation dinners and all sorts of things and you felt part of the,

part of the furniture and part of the family.

Lord Russell Baker: Yes.

John Attridge: And I got a taste of corporate life and corporate training at the big end of town and it, to be honest, it wasn't me.

And so about that time,

you know, I was,

I'd peaked in what I was doing.

I didn't have anything else to prove. I really didn't have anywhere else to go other than a change of focus and becoming part of the senior corporate management team at a massive company.

And to be honest,

and I've had a little experience with that afterwards at Microsoft years later and both of those experiences didn't engender me to liking corporate life. Too much backstabbing,

you know, *** covering,

oh, too much CCing with emails and all sorts of different things just to justify what you were doing and you know, that dog eat dog world,

it just wasn't me.

I love small business, I love the structure of creative business.

And so at that time I was on the lookout for something different.

And I'm sure you're going to ask about that as it comes along.

Lord Russell Baker: I certainly am, yeah. I mean, so let's look at.

Because this leads into your entrepreneurial side of your world. So let's look at the entrepreneurial leap in your business life. Your success in the corporate world drove your entrepreneurial spirit to explore new opportunities as you're just suggesting.

So in 1988 you made the bold decision to co found Trade Ltd. A venture that would redefine trade and business sectors. Alongside two other directors, you built Trade Limited into one of the largest independently owned trade exchanges globally recognized by the International Reciprocal Trade association or short term known as irta.

So please educate us all here, John, on this, this amazing start in your entrepreneurial campaign.

Fantastic story.

John Attridge: Yeah, so there's a little bit that missed out in that and that's.

I had played football in Australian football I used to call it,

and cricket in Goulburn and a guy that I'd played both football and cricket with had moved to the Gold coast in Queensland and started a car rental business.

So I'd gone there as part of the Life Underwriters association convention on the Gold coast,

met David, saw the lifestyle that he was leading. Instead of suit and tie, was in a pair of shorts and you know, getting in early in the morning, washing cars, sending them out, you know, bringing them back at the end of the day and, and watching all this happen.

And I thought we had World Expo in Brisbane coming up in 88.

And so we kicked off West Rent Mazda Car Rentals.

And so you know, we had loads of relationships with Mazda Australia brought brand new Mazdas on lease at, you know, a very moderate 17% interest rates back in the day.

Excuse me, it's another. People moan about 4 and 5 and 6% but try 17 and work to that. But we just didn't know any different.

So during Expo we had the six months of Extra Expo and World Expo two months either side and we had over 100% occupancy on these cars.

We made literally more money that you could spend. And my dad who owned the farm, had sold the farm at that point,

traveled up to the Gold coast and just shook his head as to what was happening and how was this so easy that you could make money faster that you can, you couldn't even spend it.

That's absolutely true.

And then a year later the every commercial pilot in Australia decided to go on strike.

Little did we know at the time, but that went on for five months.

And so we went from hero to zero within 14 days.

So from 100 odd percent occupancy to zero and yet we still had all the overhead of paying Mazda, the lease company,

the wages, the rents.

And so this thing that I'd seen in America saved us because we formed a trading group because a little bit like Covid, you can't see that coming, you can't plan for it.

And it took the then Prime Minister Bob Hawke the threat five months later, five and a half months later that if these pilots didn't get back to work come Monday he'd take away their commercial pilot's license.

And true to his word,

about 50% of the total pilots in Australia to my knowledge have never ever flown a commercial aircraft over Australian airspace.

So.

And that broke the strike. You know he really came in and he was a trade union guy. Exactly. And then became the Prime Minister.

He was famously known for the fastest yard glass at Oxford University but he was a bit of a knockabout guy. Should have been a Chelsea fan. But anyway, that's another thing.

Lord Russell Baker: Well that's another story.

John Attridge: So anyway, he broke the strike but it took five and a half months and if we hadn't have adopted this strategy of the trading group we would have been dead in the water because we would have had no options, no revenue coming in, we wouldn't have had enough money.

The money we made during Expo would have run out and we would have failed as a business before we even virtually got off the ground. But because of the exchange we were able to develop a very Strong Business Trade Ltd.

As you point out which we then sold about a decade later.

And that was my first eight figure exit from business and not just all mine but with two other partners as you point out.

And that was a mixture of cash, scrip and equity in a new company. So we did a trade sale at that point in the meantime we'd already sold the westrent car rental business for a nice little figure.

What probably one of our mistakes in business too. We decided on a Friday that the trade exchange was going so well that we should dip ditch the car rental that had been our crutch all this time.

This is in about 92 and we decided on a figure, put it in the paper and sold it and walked away with the money Monday.

So that told me we sold that too cheap. But you live and learn. But that's where we got to.

Lord Russell Baker: You certainly do. And of course a little bit more about Trade Limited. Your leadership at Trade Limited was marked by your commitment to ethical business practices and education.

And again knowing you John, I can see this absolutely falls into your lap quite nicely. So much so that you served as the worldwide governor of the IRTA Ethics committee and you were a member of the Certified Broker Panel which regulated global industry educational standards.

I mean your efforts helped elevate Trade Limited standing in the industry, making it a trusted partner for business literally around the world. I mean this is, this is some achievement what you did with, with, with Trade Ltd.

Isn't it John? Before you sold it? Of course.

John Attridge: So we started with 50 businesses under crisis and then about 13 years later had the, had the exit into a bigger company that was one of our, well we call it a competitor but I, I always like to collaborate rather than compete because yes,

ignorance of what you do was our biggest competitor by a long shot.

And so part of that exit was a strong foundation with erta that was our industry group. I'd had strong connections to the Life Underwriters association when I was with MLC and I carried that forward into the same concept with the IRTA and I still do today.

I was there a week ago at the last convention in Las Vegas speaking on a couple of topics in front of my peers and fellow owners of exchanges.

And I think that was my 20 odd, 21st, 22nd attendance at these conventions. And we calculated at the time, I think I've spent more money bringing me and associates and colleagues to these events than just about any other person in the world.

Mainly because we have to travel from wherever we are to America because that's where mostly they held, America or the Caribbean.

Lord Russell Baker: That's an amazing story, isn't it really? Yeah, absolutely fantastic. So I mean really there's no, no end to your business talents John, as you also co owned and directed several other successful ventures including the, the West Rent Mazda Car Rentals which you've already discussed and Trade Print, a lithographic print company as well.

I mean west went Mazda located as you said on the Australia's Gold coast, catered to the, the booming tourist market. As you previously mention your leadership. The company flourished as you said, further demonstrating your versatility and business acumen.

A very busy and successful time chance.

What about lithographic print company?

How did that one pan out?

John Attridge: Yeah, so we picked that up as a bad debt.

Interesting story that they owed us quite a bit of money and like lots of businesses,

you know, the previous owner was a good printer and was passionate about printing, knew 202 run strong what color that looked like. You know, who does that?

So he had all this knowledge about printing but it was had no idea on accounting, he had no idea on finance, no idea on legal planning Marketing, sales,

it was all cross your fingers and hope that you run.

And that's a common denominator in so many businesses even today.

You know, I write in my best selling book, Russell, you know, there's three fundamentals that every business I've ever owned I've applied. One is Stephen R. Covey's second habit of highly effective people.

And one of those is starting with the end in mind.

Because most people put more effort into planning their holiday than they do their business.

And even today, and you know, as you know, I'm a fairly in demand speaker around the place and people come up to me afterwards and say, John, what's the biggest mistake small business makes?

And I said they don't start with the end in mind. They just decide on opening a business and cross their fingers and hope it works.

And it is so true.

The second thing is I apply the 8020 rule, so concentrating 80% of my efforts towards the top 20% of things that create 80% of my income.

And then the third thing which is the basis for the trade exchange is to capture money,

monetize, identify and do something with the spare capacity which is usually the biggest hidden asset in every single business that people are blissfully unaware of. You know, they, they're fantastic at looking at their management accounts every month, their P and L and balance sheet.

When you ask them about their spare capacity opportunity, they just look at you as if you're from Mars.

So,

so what my point being is that when we saw that print business, we saw great operator,

just a poor business person.

So we came in, paid up all the debt,

restructured the business, left that person as the managing director and the guy that actually did the printing,

put some proper sales processes around the thing, did some proper marketing, some planning,

and all of a sudden, you know, that became a booming business,

not the wreck that it previously was. And then the same thing happened with the Queensland Post sports edition, which was a weekly newspaper because I loved sport. I recruited a couple of guys that loved cricket, loved golf, loved football,

what have you. That were my mates,

they became the journos and the guys out schmoozing and ticketing because I loved what they did. They played at my cricket club,

so it gave them something to do. We used the print company to do the printing for the thing,

those boys to get out and cover the events. And every week we had this newspaper running around, tabloid form that was providing, you know, news and insights and stories into the sporting world, which as you know, in Australia is pretty vibrant.

And so again, that was using the same principle as what I've applied to every business I've run, but just structured it so so that it was done properly. And then get great people around me to do the icross t stuff.

Lord Russell Baker: Absolutely. So more John Atris success stories and of course all in Australia. But let's talk about expanding your horizons a little here. In the early 2000s you expanded your influence by moving to the United Kingdom.

So the English will come in handy now that you did earlier in your university days where you continue to apply your business acumen on a global scale. One of your notable roles during this period was as a consultant for Barsercard.

I think I've got that right. Barter Card, a company specializing in trade exchanges known for your ability to fix stuff that no one else can, which you've just kind of been talking about.

In some ways, with the lithographic setup, you became an invaluable asset. Applying your expertise in sales, systems management, franchising,

licensing, training and marketing. I mean, very impressive, John, isn't it? I mean, please tell us more about your first business venture in the United Kingdom.

Successful?

John Attridge: Sure.

So after,

as I said, when we exited Trade Limited I took a chunk of that exit price in stock in Barticard and I was then commissioned on a three year deal to come to the United Kingdom and open up the operation here, which we successfully did and in three years we'd expanded it to about 5,000 customers,

trading about £5 million a month in additional capacity. So moving the business forward.

But the key thing in all of that was the very first day I got here, I met my current wife and so what we did with Barter Card, we moved that on and I was part of the process that we ended up listing that on the second board of the AIM here in London and that was a 34 million pound or $34 million exit.

At that time I owned the front door mat, of course, as part of the deal that I'd done previously,

but that allowed in 2012, 2013 I sold out and then I had a hiatus out of the industry for about 12 months where I went off to work back in corporate with Microsoft,

which was the second worst mistake I ever made. You know,

it was on good money,

silly money really.

But my only mistake there was not taking a percentage of the uplift because what I was responsible for was in the process of recruiting 2,800 call centre staff speaking 22 languages in four centres to field the 30 day free trial initiatives for Office 365 Windows Intune and CRM Online and we were doing about 36,000 of those a day bant qualifying them and turning them into qualified leads to pass to the Microsoft Partner network.

So that taught me a lot of things back in the *** covering and the brown nosing and the CCing with emails by that time and that was a toxic environment.

I really hated every day of being there and wait to get out.

Lord Russell Baker: So I mean just so everybody understands, when your global influence grew further, when you took on this role and it was a global head of trading and quality for the Microsoft division,

Rainmaker, I think in 2012 it's called Rainmaker. And as you say, in this position you led the team responsible for implementing Microsoft's Click to chat 30 day free trial response initiatives for products like Windows 8, Oxford365, Office365 I should say Windows Intune and CRM Online, further elevating your reputation as a global business leader with a keen understanding of technology now as well and customer service.

Now this does sound like an interesting venture, John, although you say working for that organization, you loathed it because it was very much the cc everybody on emails, BCC covering your shirt tails.

But it's still, it's a learning curve, isn't it? Something you,

you grasped and got on with and made happen.

John Attridge: It reminded me of the latter days of MLC when Lend Lease had taken over and it reminded me that corporate life was certainly not my bag of fruit.

Lord Russell Baker: Yeah.

John Attridge: And you know,

and you know, you look at, even today, many people retire for, well, not retire, but they get made redundant from a mid manager's role at a massive company and then they think, oh, I'll just run it.

Go out and run a business without a salary and they find out what that really means and six months later they're out of business. So that's another story.

Lord Russell Baker: Is another story completely. Yeah. The people that work for these corporations, you know, in these nice comfortable roles could never do what you do as an entrepreneur, could they John? They just haven't got the backbone, the knowledge, the thought process to even get there.

John Attridge: I don't think they got the mindset because a fat salary creates a hammock. Yeah, it does not a safety net.

Lord Russell Baker: Quite right. Indeed. That's quite nicely put. I like that hammock. Absolute. Just lie down, fall asleep and just carry on with life as it is until it all ends, as you say, and then they're stuck.

John Attridge: Someone deciding new CEO comes along and all of a sudden cuts 7,000 jobs. Do you think, what the hell were Those guys doing prior to,

you know, I can cut 7,000 and not notice. So hang on, what were they doing?

Lord Russell Baker: Exactly right. You're so right. And it happens very readily in business, doesn't it? Today it happens more often than you think.

John Attridge: Actually, to be fair,

it could apply to the public service. Again, that's another issue. But it's my thought that you could probably get rid of 82% of the entire public service and not notice.

Lord Russell Baker: You probably could. Actually.

You probably could. And having worked in the public sector myself as a consultant,

particularly driving,

for example, I did, did work at the Home Office as an interim head of cyber security for the whole of the Home Office and, and also policing division as well.

And you walk around, you see these people and you think, what do they actually do?

It's a mystery.

John Attridge: You can't do without nurses, doctors, teachers, all that. So I'm not saying that side of the public service, I'm saying that's different. The pen pushers that are in Whitehall and where.

Lord Russell Baker: Wherever else.

John Attridge: Working from home.

Lord Russell Baker: Yeah.

John Attridge: You know, they're the lot that I look at and just shake my head and think, what are you doing?

Lord Russell Baker: Exactly right. And of course, they're burning money, they're burning the public purse. And that's the trouble, I think.

John Attridge: Terry Packer. Terry Packer, the Australian billionaire, was questioned by the Senate at one point,

he said, and he was accused by a senator of avoiding tax.

And he's sitting there stirring a cup of tea, saying,

I do everything I possibly can to minimise my tax.

Absolutely right, he said. You'd be a complete moron if you paid more extra rather than what's obligated. Because until you as a government, demonstrate to me that you become more efficient in spending it, why will I donate extra?

A classic line.

Lord Russell Baker: A classic line indeed. And as we all know,

you know, tax avoidance is legal, Tax evasion is illegal.

So tax evasion takes you to prison. Tax avoidance doesn't. It just means you've got more money in your pocket. I mean, everybody should.

John Attridge: You've got an absolute duty as a business person to legally minimize your obligation, in my opinion.

Lord Russell Baker: Correct, correct. And that's actually operating as a proper official, as an owner of a company, isn't it? You've got to do that and you.

John Attridge: Need vision in order to do that. You do, you know, if you're a technical company and you're innovating, then take advantage of things like R and D,

you know,

you'll get a payment that wouldn't have otherwise been there. It's sitting There ready for you. You know, just be aware of what's available and take advantage of what is available.

Lord Russell Baker: Exactly. Take it with open hands.

Absolutely right. And we've had these conversations I know before in other business discussions we've had John, but now let's switch from business ventures for a moment and look at your passion for cricket,

Toby. You've got to get onto sport, haven't we? Let's be honest, you also pursued a long life passion for cricket. Your love for the sport led you to become a qualified umpire with the England and Wales Cricket Board, the ECB in 2001.

Over the course of your 14 year career as an umpire, you officiated in numerous high profile matches including the MCC a four day championship final and the national 2020 televised final as well.

So please tell us more about your love for cricket John, and what drove you to become a high profile cricket umpire.

John Attridge: I think it crosses over into business as well and people in sport generally speaking.

One of the things I look for in recruitment, particularly in sales and account management is a competitive nature.

Lord Russell Baker: Yes.

John Attridge: So I want to recruit a team of people like I did with MLC back in the day that they weren't fighting each other but they were certainly looking at leaderboards. So everywhere you go in my organizations as Bells, when you do a deal, there's a leaderboard thing, there's an end of month finish,

all the environment around, getting the best result out of the team possible.

But for the customer,

for the team member and of course then for the company, you know,

it's a win, win for everybody.

And you know, cricket was part of that. I really enjoyed cricket. You know, I captained cricket teams and was part of seniors teams for 20 years and oddly enough it wasn't.

I didn't start my career umpiring in,

in England, it was in the late 90s in,

in Australia.

Lord Russell Baker: Okay.

John Attridge: And a funny story,

I was getting to the point, I think I was 41 and being called granddad all the time for playing as a frustrated left arm orthodox spinner that used to come around the wicket, pitch it in line and, and it's going to take middle stump LB every time.

And umpires, back in the day, before all the technology we have, not out, not out, missing leg, missing leg.

Now I would have been the greatest wicket taker of all time had technology been around when I was bowling.

Lord Russell Baker: Yes.

John Attridge: I'm just amplifying that just for the sake of it as you get older that you know, your success gets better, doesn't it?

Lord Russell Baker: It does indeed. Yeah.

John Attridge: But you Know, I was always frustrated with the fact that, you know, how was this not out and that? So one day I really did my nut and,

you know, regretfully let the umpire know that. That his parents weren't born, weren't married when he was born and all sorts of other things. And I got suspended.

Wow. And I thought, I'm getting to the point where, you know, I'm getting old and slow and in the field, my bowling was still as good as ever, but, you know, I didn't ever like batting that much and fielding was just a chore.

So I thought maybe it's the time to retire because part of my penalty was that I had to do an umpiring course.

Lord Russell Baker: Oh, wow.

John Attridge: So I did an umpiring course,

oddly enough, with the guy that owned the printing company that I was talking about, because he was a cricketer as well,

bloke called Bruce Oxenford that most people that are into cricket will have heard of. He went on to become a absolute elite Test umpire and enjoyed the joy, the umpiring.

In the first year, I did okay. I got the third grade grand final and thought, you know, because in Australia you get appointed according to merit, there's a system and rewards and umpires get trophies and all sorts of things that doesn't happen here.

But that's another story.

And the second year I did it,

I got the.

The semifinal of the A grade,

which included my club playing in that game. And that raised a lot of eyebrows at the time, but I managed to get through that. And at that time I moved here to the uk,

got on the board for the Hertfordshire League,

which is where I'd played as a player over the years,

came here and had a season at Harpenden up in Hertfordshire.

Enjoyed that immensely.

Had a umpire a season there, got moved up through the grades into the, you know, the first grade and then the.

Then the system. And then all of a sudden in 2000,

I'm going to say three, maybe four,

they then got this national panel thing going and I got appointed to go on that.

And then I spent 14 years up until the end of just before COVID Yes.

But unfortunately, I'd never played a first class cricket game. And when it got to 20, 18, 19, I was standing alongside current umpires who I won't name that have retired from first class cricket, come along in their first games, standing at my level that I'd had 500 games doing and good marks and whatnot.

They came whizzing through the grades because by that time I was 60 odd. And they were 30 and whatnot.

So I've stood with people like Rob Bailey and Richard Kettleborough and Richard was probably recognized as the best in the world there at one point.

Lord Russell Baker: Absolutely, yes.

John Attridge: But most of these guys coming through were all ex first class players and you know, they'd experienced first class and a little bit like I've always questioned why football's not the same is that everyone moans about the ref but.

And most of the refs have never played at any decent level.

Lord Russell Baker: They haven't, you're right.

John Attridge: And you wouldn't expect a ex first Premier League player because they've probably got too much money to worry about accepting the money to be a ref. But why not the National League guys that were semi pro or pro.

Surely there's a system that could, that could be adopted where some of them that know the game, that played the game,

and that's why I got respect as an umpire, is that I'd been through and I'd played it at a half decent level and interpreted it, knew what we were doing and worked with the players and I think man management played a big part in that.

Yes, you know the rules, that should be a given. Yes, you know where to stand. Yes, you know, you know all the bits and bobs. But how to manage a game,

how to, how to see blow ups coming and how to avoid them, that was part of the skill. I think that got me through to probably the best level that I could have been having played the standard of cricket that I had played.

So all good things come to an end. And my wife said one day Covid came along and we thought that was a good idea. And to be brutally honest, I haven't missed it.

Lord Russell Baker: Okay, that's fair enough. And you love cricket so much as well. I mean, let's be honest, you umpired at county level, didn't you? Let's be honest, umpiring in various formats of the game, Officiating as recently as 2018, just before COVID and to name a few matches.

There are second class matches, but still good level. Hertfordshire vs Wiltshire, Berkshire vs Shropshire, Cornwall vs Devon or Feisty affair that one, I'm sure. I mean there must be some, some great stories there about these, these amazing cricket journeys you've had.

You know, literally umpiring at that county level. That's a fantastic,

fantastic role you had there.

John Attridge: I remember Cornwall versus Devon was always a bit of thing beyond what side you cream you put together.

There was these rowdy Devon supporters that turn up at every Devon game, drinking cider copious all day and they'd sit on the sidelines and go, D E, V N Devon.

And you think, hang on,

missing some letters here. But it sort of had a ring to it and the players just went along with it. But yeah, there was plenty of,

plenty of banter going backwards and forwards. I think one of the highlights I did actually the four day final where Cornwall won their first ever four day county championship playing Berkshire.

And I was one of the umpires that was there with Jeff Calloway. Another Aussie guy.

Lord Russell Baker: Yeah.

John Attridge: And the other guy that was supposed to be at that is Donovan ****, the South African. And he was. He's moved on and he's now on the elite panel in Australia.

Wow. There's some good form to that sort of stuff. But it was Cornwall's first ever win in the championship.

A great four day event. Some very good, you know, good mixture of young guys coming through,

old,

old pros that have, you know, there's a guy played a test for Pakistan and all that sort of stuff that he was very cagey as a bowler and decent, decent fella.

So. You meet so many nice people, Russell. And this is back in the day where,

you know, when I was a player, I always had a beer after the game with,

with the oppo.

This one even you'd have a beer or two. But you know, as life's gone on and then from my observations past Covid, it's certainly not the family and the entertainment that it once was, I think with social media and everything.

I don't think that the guys have the same camaraderie as what we used to back in the day.

Lord Russell Baker: No, I agree with you. I mean, I've had some great cricket people on my show actually. Ashley Giles was on last year for example, first class.

John Attridge: So yes, I was, I was up in the parks in Oxford and.

Lord Russell Baker: Oh wow.

John Attridge: I'm always amazed by, you know, the English tradition in cricket, the ho ho ho and all that sort of stuff.

And I was umpiring with a guy called Don Brooks,

whose son is Jack, who played for Oxfordshire, then went on to Somerset and then very successful career at Yorkshire. Yes,

great guy. Got his own cricket academy now. So I was with his dad. And we're in day two of this game and it was Oxfordshire Blues playing Warwickshire and Ashley Giles was one of the coaches of Warwickshire, so he was day two there's been a fatality on the A34 and Don's like to the game by about 45 minutes.

So I'm at one end doing both and We've had Ashley Giles and Alan Donald, the ex South African fast bowler,

alternating at square leg.

So when Brooksie turns up, I say, yeah, there you go, Brooksie. You're more important than two ex first class and Test players put together.

Lord Russell Baker: Good story.

That's a wonderful story. I mean, Ashley Giles was great on the show. I mean, obviously, you know, he was. He won the Ashes in 2005 for England against Australia.

John Attridge: We don't talk about that.

Lord Russell Baker: But anyway, you don't talk about that one very much. I know, John, that's something you're going to dislike, I think, being discussed. And of course we've got the Ashes series later on this year in December and January, haven't we, over in Australia.

So that's an interesting one. But I've also had, for example, the cricket or the sport and business side of things. I've had Colin Grace,

the chairman CEO of Yorkshire County Cricket Club on the show and also Sean Jarvis, who mixes cricket and his football and his business acumen as CEO of Leicestershire County Cricket Club.

So there's been a bit of a cricket format really going on on the show here, which is great to see. And now yourself, you're joining the cricket business club.

It's wonderful. That's what I like to see.

You also played for Wooden mortimer cricket club, second 11.

That's both batsman and bowler. I mean, please tell us more about those playing days because it's second eleven. I'm sure you were probably a little bit older at that point.

And did you enjoy that?

John Attridge: Well, I don't know, I don't remember actually that one. But I did play for the 40 Club, which is John Bradman's thing, and, or even better and even though I wasn't 40 at the time.

And we played this,

played this school in Barry St Edmunds.

Lord Russell Baker: Yes.

John Attridge: And it was very ho ho ho and I'm fielding it silly mid on and we've got our slow left arm bowler at the other end and this guy just leans forward and pops one up to me.

I just put it in my pocket, say, how's that? You know,

and not expecting anything, just mucking around. Next thing I turn around, he's on his bike.

Anyway, I think that's pretty weird what went on there. Anyway, I caught up with him at lunch and I said, what's going on? He said, oh yeah, I felt a little tickle onto the inside of the pad and when you appealed, I thought I must have hit it.

So I walked and I just said to him, son,

make sure you revisit that in the future, otherwise you'll be on the wrong end of too many decisions. But in Australia, that would have never happened. Nobody walked at the time.

Lord Russell Baker: So I think that's more of an English thing, wasn't it? That sort of gentlemanship around cricket, you know, if you know you're out, you walk.

It's more of an English honesty factoring.

John Attridge: And it's not honesty. The Australian perspective is the guy in the white coat, or was white coat at the other end puts his finger up or he doesn't. He's there to make a decision.

You don't have to make one for him.

Lord Russell Baker: Exactly right.

John Attridge: And I. And I'd prefer that, you know, because I knew in Australia I had to make a decision when I was umpiring there,

I had to make the decision. Right,

exactly. Here in England, half walked and half didn't. And you didn't know who was who.

And so,

you know, it's just made life very more confusing. If I had my choice, I'd umpire where nobody walked.

Lord Russell Baker: Absolutely. Absolutely right.

And, yeah, that's it. So, yeah, wait for that umpire's finger to go up, as you would have done if you thought someone was out. And if it didn't go up, you stayed at the crease.

It's as simple as that, isn't it?

I know the Australians are good at doing a lot of that, so. But it was more of a British thing. But there we go. An English thing. I should say more rather than British.

John Attridge: Maybe in the olden days, not so much today.

Lord Russell Baker: Oh, I don't think it happens today, John. I think that they've. They've wised up now and you've got technology now.

John Attridge: You know, that's one of the best things that's ever happened, is.

Lord Russell Baker: Yes.

John Attridge: You know, it makes the umpire make a decision one way or another. You've got umpires call.

That allows a little bit of latitude. I. I think, you know, that is. Have been the most brilliant innovation in the last.

Lord Russell Baker: Yeah, I agree.

John Attridge: 100 years.

Lord Russell Baker: I agree completely. I mean, it's happened in tennis, cricket, you know, it's happened in many sports now, football to some degree, with the controversial, you know, controversy of the VAR structure.

But it's happened across sports and quite rightly so.

John Attridge: I think, too,

all football need to do is get their act together on some consistency with the people that are operating the var. You don't have that same issue in cricket. It is black.

Lord Russell Baker: No, you don't.

And of course, it's also the same in rugby. Rugby's pretty Straightforward as well. I mean, they should adopt some of the rugby rules really, to be honest, in football here or globally, because it would work better.

It simply would.

John Attridge: Yeah.

Lord Russell Baker: But as we know, business and sport do go hand in hand as great partners. John. And the news heading, and I'll read this out. Umpires hit the six by new kit.

Sponsorship deal typifies this in many ways. You gave a maximum to Bournemouth based BBX uk, who we'll come back onto later on. We won't talk about BBX just yet. A leading international business brokerage who have supplied a brand now a new set of shirts and jackets for the south coast panel of cricket officials who stand in Southern Premier and Hampshire League matches each weekend in a three year sponsorship deal.

I mean this, this sounds like a great sponsorship deal, John, doesn't it really? I mean, congratulations for doing this.

John Attridge: That was using the concept of spare capacity, using the trade exchange mechanism.

Lord Russell Baker: Yes.

John Attridge: And so we were able to go to a supplier in Cornwall, oddly enough,

bought all the kit, got all the stuff laid out and then provided that in return for exposure for the league. So it saved the league. Can't remember the exact number.

It was about six or ten grand or something and you know, which is hard to find. A lot of grassroots sports clubs are struggling to find.

Lord Russell Baker: Yeah.

John Attridge: Sponsorship. So instead of having to pay up pound sterling, we got a sponsor to come along and buy the kit.

They got what they wanted and everybody was happy.

Lord Russell Baker: Good deal.

Absolutely perfect. No, I think that's perfect. And I mean that's a great. The great combination of business and sport together. I think you did a really nice move there. And now this moves us on nicely to building BBX UK a new chapter in business leadership and of course your current business venture.

In 2014, you founded BBX UK, an international business community designed to help business owners unlock their full potential by selling unsold time and products. I know you briefly mentioned this earlier on, so it's perfect timing of this.

As the founder and CEO, you have been at the forefront of helping businesses maximize their spare capacity. A hidden asset that many companies overlook. Again, you mentioned that earlier. BBX UK offers a unique platform to help companies find hidden treasure.

And so please tell us more about this exciting BBX UK platform and business venture. I know you're global now as well, John, so tell us more about BBX uk.

John Attridge: Yeah, so after I finished my exclusion period having exited Microsoft,

I got a thing on LinkedIn which I subscribed to quite well and I know you do too,

from the founder of BBX because that began in 1993 in Australia and we had worked together when I was in Queensland and they were in Sydney and Adelaide. And so I'd helped develop that brand from day one,

many, many years beforehand. And when Michael, the founder realized that I was free from encumberment in our space, he got a hold of me. I got down to Sydney and spent a week down there.

We'd nutted out a deal and I began,

began the brand here in the UK. And that was 12 years ago.

And that's the one. We're back on track now for another eight figure exit in the next three to five years. So using the same concept as what we started back on the Gold coast with back in the pilot strike times,

but having worked with the business for 20 odd years,

putting in place a lot of things that had I known when I started I would have done from day one. So it was an opportunity to start with a clean slate using the mechanism.

And the mechanism works absolutely brilliantly.

But it's like an F1 car, you can have Max Verstappen driving it or Miss Daisy or crazy, crazy David who runs it off the track all the time. So it's not the mechanism's fault, it's who's behind the wheel.

So what we learned through experience was how to drive the car better, faster, more efficiently.

And that's what we brought to the table when we opened BBX 12 years ago. So that's expanded out now.

That brand is now directly in 12 countries and we have tens of thousands of business owners, not 50 when we started all these years ago. And through the International Reciprocal Trade association there's about 480,000 that participate in one form or another through the community.

The net result is you can sell and monetize some spare capacity here in the UK,

obtain a digital credit held in your own PayPal type bank account and then you can spend that anywhere globally.

Lord Russell Baker: Absolutely. Now of course BBX is a true global product now, isn't it? As a company, as an organization,

I mean I just missed out on some business with you just last year because you moved the payroll out to your Singapore operation, bbx and I just, just got to you too late I think.

But there we are. It's like that's one of those things in life that you just have to experience and move on from.

But your wealth of experience and insights have also led you to become a best selling author and sought after keynote speaker. Brilliant. Your book Business Blunders and ****** Great Ideas is very Australian.

That isn't I love it. Has garnered acclaim in multiple countries providing practical advice and strategies for small business owners aiming to navigate the complex world of entrepreneurship. Now that must be very satisfying on a writer and a keynote speaker.

I mean, please tell us more. You must enjoy that.

That's fun, isn't it?

John Attridge: I love it. Nowadays, you know, I, yeah, I'm. I'm at events just about every month.

Yes, I've noticed, you know, in the last 12 months I've spoken throughout the world including the USA and Australia and here in the UK of course.

So yeah,

I think I'm a keynote speaker that I make a claim when we start our thing that if you don't take away one thing from this that you can implement into your business tomorrow,

we need to have. I'll have a one to one with you for free and see what went wrong. And I must start promoting the book. But it did go to bestseller in four countries in 12 categories and I've written it three years ago and I still haven't started promoting it yet because I didn't write it to,

you know,

to make money out of selling the copy I made. I wrote it to share some of my experience if people could be bothered reading it. And it's not stuff that just got thrown at me or on a plate or.

And I listen to keynote speakers that are famous. You know, I'm not a famous guy.

In fact most of the people watching this will have never heard of me before.

But you know, what I have done is actually do the do.

And when I talk on stage I can talk on many levels and on various aspects from the heart and from experience and what a lot of keynotes do.

They might have a name because they're on television or they're a famous sports person or whatnot,

but they either don't share what was good, bad and ugly or they intentionally keep it, you know, for people. Cause they've got a coaching business or they've got a something else that backs onto it and they use it as a leader.

So people come and you know, crowd around and buy their course or something. And I don't have any courses so I've got no motivation other than to help businesses. Because you know, it's a sad statistic that 5.5 million businesses in the UK today,

out of those all but a couple hundred thousand are one man bands.

And for the DEI people out there, you know, one woman operations one however they identify. Operations.

Yeah, one person operations.

As you guessed, I'm not a DEI advocate. I'm much more in Always trying to favor the best person. I don't care what they look like or how they act or whatever, that doesn't bother me.

But yeah, and those events, you know, we,

we speak and yeah, I can do an impromptu event based on the profile of the audience. In fact, I sometimes ask, so what have we got here? They've got business owners today and if there's a majority of business owner, I can focus that on three things that they can do today that cost them nothing or very little that'll increase their business by 20,

30% if they follow the strategy. Now,

not everybody does that, but at least hopefully they go away from one of those presentations knowing something that they didn't know before or get reminded of something that they'd forgotten that they can implement without having to go and spend a fortune on consultants or coaches or anybody else that's leeching around looking for their money.

Lord Russell Baker: Absolutely. That's very honourable, isn't it, really, John?

It comes from your heart, obviously. You know, you like doing what you do. You like to go and do these wonderful speeches and talking to people and educating people and to actual change.

Because to walk onto a stage without any real written script as such, and then to sort of focus on who, what the audience is and then change your delivery based on the audience members, that's quite a skill, isn't it?

Well, and you have to have the knowledge.

John Attridge: If you've done what I've done, then, you know, I'm not reciting stuff from a book, I'm not reciting stuff from anything else other than from memory.

Lord Russell Baker: Absolutely. And that's the best way, isn't it?

John Attridge: Well, that works,

you know, that's what I look for. If I go to and listen to a speaker somewhere, I want to find out something new, not some, you know, bollocks about how good they are or what they've done or,

you know,

that doesn't impress me at all.

Lord Russell Baker: No, no, I can understand that too. I mean, so moving forward, what is next in the world of John Attridge? What's your future plans? And you say you're going to potentially get out of BBX within three to five years.

What are you thinking of next? Because from what I understand, a lot of people I know that get to a certain age, they don't want to retire,

they never want to retire, they want to carry on doing stuff and keep on. And why not? I mean, for example, I'll tell you a story.

I know Barry Hearn here, who you've probably heard of Barry,

you know, he Owns the matchrooms, he owns snooker darts, his son runs the boxing here in the UK and globally.

And Barry Hearn is what now when he, when I last spoke to him a few years ago,

he must be now 84, 85.

And I spoke to Steve Davis, the, the, the, the six times world snooker champion quite recently.

And I said to Steve, I said, what is it with Barry? I said, he, he, he doesn't need any money. He's a multimillionaire, probably more. I said, what's his motivation?

He said, well, to be honest, Russ, we said if he stopped today,

he dropped dead tomorrow.

Now I think that's the,

that's the plan is that's the momentum. And I think all of us that do what we do, we don't want to give up, do we? There's always something new and exciting around the corner.

John Attridge: If you, if you enjoy golf and you're still able to play it.

Lord Russell Baker: Yeah.

John Attridge: Would you reach a certain age and retire?

Lord Russell Baker: Of course you wouldn't.

John Attridge: So I, you know, my drug is business. I love indeed being involved in it. It gets me up every day at 5am and certainly does, you know,

you know, and I look at people that are, well, older than me. I mean,

Joe Foster, nobody would have heard of Joe.

No.

So he opened up a little retail shoe shop in Bolton,

right,

and turned it into a company that you may have heard of called Reebok.

Lord Russell Baker: Yeah, Reebok Global brand, massive brand.

John Attridge: So Joe sold Reebok in 1984 for US$4 billion.

Lord Russell Baker: Oh, I can imagine.

John Attridge: He's 90, just turned 90 last week.

And I've been with him on stage.

Yes, him and his wife Julie, lovely people.

They're always,

they're always on a flight somewhere showing their Reeboks.

And if you follow, if I follow them on social media, I haven't caught up with them for a year or so.

But Joe's 90.

What does he enjoy doing more than anything else in the world, do you think?

Lord Russell Baker: Yeah, exactly.

John Attridge: He loves being on stage,

you know,

isn't it?

He wrote his book called the Schumann and he knows what that is because that's his life story, in essence.

You just,

you keep him on track and he can be so entertaining, reciting information that,

you know, how do you start a retail shop in. But, well, he was third generation.

But how do you become a third generation retail shop in Bolton and turn it into Reebok? How do you do that?

Lord Russell Baker: Yeah, it's unimaginable, isn't it? But he did it, he was successful.

John Attridge: And it's a great story. And he continues to this day. Last week I saw him on a stage. Well, I didn't. I saw the social media in Dubai talking to a group of business people, you know, Wonderful.

Lord Russell Baker: That's wonderful. But, you know, I share his passion about being on the stage because I'm similar.

Put me in front of a camera, give me a microphone and I'm in my own element. I'm away. Put me on the stage. Just like yourself, John, you know, it doesn't matter how big or small the audience is.

I'm in my own element.

And it's. That also is a drug. It really is.

John Attridge: And one other thing I'd say at the top of all this, that money has never been a motivator for me.

So I'm not a billionaire,

far from it. But I've never had to worry about money since I was 19 and started earning decent money with MLC.

I haven't got a thousand houses around the world or any of that sort of stuff, but I've never ever been short of money.

Lord Russell Baker: You live a nice life.

John Attridge: A good old mate of mine once said, if you ever get in trouble in business and you're good at sales, you can sell your way out of trouble.

And that served me in good stead over the years. But the point being is that I never do anything for money.

I always do stuff because I love doing it, I enjoy doing it, I'm fairly decent at what I do, and money just drops in from all sorts of weird and wonderful places.

So I come across people that are just focused on money and to me, if it works for them, brilliant. But that's not how I operate my life.

I go to sleep at night,

I never have a worry. I've got a philosophy that I employ that says,

have I got an issue?

And if the answer's yes, can I deal with it? What's the solution? And if I can't find one, I don't worry about it. So. Exactly, you know,

if I can't influence the outcome, well, what the hell is the point in worrying about it? So that's just some philosophies online.

Lord Russell Baker: Well, I think that's true as well. I mean, I, knowing you as I do, I do believe that too. I mean, you do have a great culture for.

For wishing to help. As we know,

we're sort of working together partly now at the moment on various other business interests.

So that's fantastic too. And I'm sure that will become successful over a period and absolutely right, too.

John Attridge: And that's helping Companies I interviewed on my Quantum Leap business show during COVID which is another little story.

Ivan Meisner, the founder of bni.

Wow. And I had Ivan on the show. And the first question I asked Ivan, what have you been doing lately? He said, oh, just flew back from Necker Island. And I said, oh,

what have you been doing there? And he said, I'm talking to Richard Branson about having the first networking event in space.

And I said,

as you do.

Lord Russell Baker: As you do, just drop it in.

John Attridge: You run across interesting people.

Lord Russell Baker: You do.

John Attridge: But without. Money is the motivator.

The thing that I've found with people that do have money is that generally speaking, and I. I'm generalizing,

money isn't their motivator. They just don't do it just to read the value of their bank account. There's always another emotional motivation behind the scenes somewhere, whether it's ego,

whether it's recognition.

But generally speaking,

people with a lot of money, you get your odd person. That is obviously just. Money's everything.

Lord Russell Baker: But, yeah.

John Attridge: And usually there. There's people that you have. Have one conversation with and you think, where's that? Where's a place in the room? I can get away from them.

But the really interesting people, and I'm sure you met, you know, people like that in sport and business,

they want to share. They are genuinely interesting. Some are funny, you know.

Lord Russell Baker: Yes.

John Attridge: And.

Lord Russell Baker: Well, they all have a story to tell, don't they? I mean, I meet many,

many have been on my show. They all have us. They all have a story to tell, which is fantastic.

Absolutely amazing. I mean, I had Jimmy Cricket, a British comedian, on my show last year. You might have heard of Jimmy Cricket. I mean, he's in his late 80s now.

He's still. He's still working. He's still up and down doing the theaters because he loves it so much.

John Attridge: Yeah.

Lord Russell Baker: And it was such a great show.

We were just laughing all the way through. It's just a wonderful, wonderful show to get out there. And he loved it so much he put it onto his website. So that's.

That's a good story, isn't it? You know, and.

Well, love it. Love people like that.

John Attridge: You,

you know, there's a few Cricket tours running around. Lashings is one that I've worked with in the past.

Some good guys there.

And Blowers turns up. You must know him, you know, and some of the speeches he comes out with, you know, he must be nearly 90. And yeah, you think, man, you know, what an interesting and colorful career and life that he's led.

And he's still going strong, you know, well into the.

Into the autumn years.

Lord Russell Baker: Absolutely. A long way. Continue as well. I mean, it's just an interesting fact of life, isn't it? And a lot of it is because they haven't given up, they've not retired.

John Attridge: They'Ve kept going and inspires you. How many times do you see someone, they've worked for 50 years, they retire and they drop dead, you know, 12 months later, because.

Lord Russell Baker: Exactly. It happens quite regularly. Six months. 12 months. Happens a lot of people.

Not for me.

No, no, no, no. Keep going, keep going, keep going. And I'm conscious of time. I know you've got a.

You've got other stuff to do, John. So we're just over the hour,

so what I'll do is I'll just do what I always do towards the end and wrap up a little bit, if you don't mind.

And of course, please stay on when I finish because we'll have a quick chat afterwards, very briefly. But as always on the World of Lord Russell podcast talk show, we could talk forever, John, and I'll tell you we could about your life in business as a business leader, motivational speaker and cricket player and umpire.

Of course, it's been a huge pleasure as always, and as always, the pleasure is or mine. And of course, the show's audience when this podcast is released on the World of Lord Russell podcast talk show and the Lord Russell Baker YouTube channel.

So thank you, John. Ladies and gentlemen, I'll give you the quite incredible John Attridge. And I'm clapping my hands here and with joy. It's been fantastic. So please stay on.

The next episode on the World of Lord Russell podcast talk show is a tribute to Ray Wilkins, where my special guest will be Ross Wilkins, who is the son of Ray Wilkins.

Ray, of course, a truly celebrated football player and gentleman, playing for Chelsea, Manchester United,

AC Milan, Queens Park Rangers, and indeed Rangers in Scotland too. And of course, the England national team with 84 caps playing that UEFA Euro 1990 and the 1982 and 1986 FIFA World Cups.

So a great show to look forward to for all football fanatics alive. And of course, exclusive on the World of Lord Russell podcast talk show.

And of course, I'm looking forward to seeing you all on the inside. So until then is au revoir from him and au revoir from me.