A Guided Missile – Tim Stimpson on Rugby, Life & Business

Title: A Guided Missile – Tim Stimpson on Rugby, Life & Business

Description: Welcome to The World of Lord Russell Podcast Talk Show! In this episode, A Guided Missile, we sit down with former England international and British & Irish Lions full back Tim Stimpson.

Tim shares his journey from school days at Silcoates and Durham University to his professional rugby career with Wakefield, West Hartlepool, Newcastle Falcons, Leicester Tigers, Perpignan, Leeds Tykes, and Nottingham. We revisit iconic moments such as:

• Leicester Tigers dominance (1998–2003) – four consecutive league titles and back‑to‑back Heineken Cup wins.
• Historic kicks – including his legendary 60m penalty against Llanelli and the 2001 Heineken Cup Final conversion.
• England & Lions career – the highs of Six Nations battles and the heartbreak of missing the 2003 World Cup squad.
• Life after rugby – coaching, business ventures in renewable energy, and delivering EV charging solutions at stadiums.

This episode closes out 2025 with reflections on sport, business, and resilience, plus a festive message for Christmas and New Year 2026.

👉 Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more exclusive interviews where sport and business collide.

#TimStimpsoninterview #LeicesterTigersrugby #Englandrugbypodcast #TimStimpsoninterview #LeicesterTigersrugby #Englandrugbypodcast #BritishandIrishLions1997 #HeinekenCupfinal2001 #RugbyUnionlegends #WakefieldRFChistory #NewcastleFalconsrugby #LeedsTykesPowergenCup #Rugbymotivationalstories #Rugbyandbusinesspodcast #EVchargersinsportstadiums #LordRussellPodcastTalkShow #RugbyUnionfullbackstories #Rugbykickinghighlights

Transcript

Lord Russell Baker: 0:00

Foreign. Welcome to the world of Lord Russell podcast talk show and today's show is a guided missile which captures the life of a former rugby union international fullback and of course occasional wing player too. During his career he, he played for Wakefield, West Hartlepool, Newcastle Falcons, Leicester Tigers, Perpignan, Leeds Tykes and Nottingham. Not forgetting his international appearances for England. Wow. Fantastic they were too. And the British and Irish Lions and the Barbarians in particular. He excelled in a five year spell at Leicester Tigers between 1998 and 2003. As a goalkicker he was an integral part of the dominant Leicester Tigers side that won the league four times in succession. To add to the back to back Heineken cup win, also becoming the Premiership's top point scorer in the process. However, his points total has now been overtaken by both Johnny Wilkinson and Andy Goode. Yes folks, it gives me immense pleasure to welcome on the show Tim Stimson. Welcome to the show, Tim.

Tim Stimpson: 1:14

Thank you Lord Russell. What a great intro. Who's that guy?

Lord Russell Baker: 1:16

Oh, I try my best for sure. It sounds familiar. I always try to give a good intro because it's a part of the show, isn't it? Fantastic stuff but as always I'll start right at the beginning. Tim, Tim, in your early years you were educated at Silcote School in Wakefield and in 1992 you went to the University of Durham where you studied anthropology at Grey College graduating in 1995. So please tell us more about your school and university life. There must be some amusing stories to share. I know I did have some in my, my youthful days so.

Tim Stimpson: 1:50

Well, yeah, I loved being at school and I have to say that I think rugby and cricket gave me a lot of confidence that maybe dragged up my academic abilities. I got, you know, great memories of even before then, even at mini, mini school that you know, you, you get to wear the posh football jersey when it's a big league game and you get changed in a shed and you, you go out there thinking that you're playing for Leeds United or Liverpool. Stories. I, I can, I can remember being told off at school. I'd been off sick I think with a, with a, like a sore throat and. But I came back in for the school rugby tournament and because you know, I wanted to play rugby probably more than do, do English. So I got told off by the head of English, Mr. Lepedvin. He said to him, you'll never earn a living from playing rugby. You really need to get your priorities right. And we managed to win that, our, our trophy. And it's one of my favorite days at school and I did actually go on and play rugby, as you know, as you've said there in the intro. And there's also a message. I remember going to a Yorkshire trial. There was. It's quite tricky to get picked for Yorkshire, big, big county, so you probably play six or seven or eight layers of trials. And I remember getting a lift with Wakefield. I'd got another school, our rival school called Queg. So the Silkoats boys and the Craigs boys went on a minibus. We went over to Featherstone and I remember as I was getting off the minibus, it was Mr. Barker from Quag said, oy, lad, are you gonna effing bother turning up today or what? And. And eyeballed me and challenged me and I was really put out by that. I thought, wow, what does it, what does he think I am? You know, I'm not, I'm not a show pony. Hopefully I'm gonna, I'm gonna show him. And I remember, you know, I did, I did score a few tries to. On that. On that windy wreck field in Featherstone. I think I've always remembered his message. So whenever I needed to get motivated or think, oh, it's a big game, I better turn it on. I remember Trevor Barker and I did see him down at Rosslyn park even just a couple of years ago, and we laughed and joked about it because these schoolteachers, they do have a big impact on your life. So, yeah, so rugby was important, cricket was important at school. Went on up to Durham and again, I suppose I was a northerner going to Durham, but it's sort of full of very rich southerners. Wow. So, you know, when you first get there, you get a bit on the back foot that they've got cars and all this sort of thing and I was just. But luckily I had rugby so I turned up to the trials and, and got picked, you know, up in the first team in my first year where I played with people like Will Greenwood and it was an amazing experience to be, you know, you sort of work hard about eight hours a week on the anthropology and then you, you'd train every night like you're a pro. And the world evolved around it. Your Wednesdays, you know, playing for the university and then playing against the local club sides on a Saturday. So, yeah, I've only got. Loads of memories. Happy, happy times. One not quite so successful. I remember we lost in the semi final of the University cup, the uau. And I got the score wrong. So another one of Those messages, that and stories from my life. I thought we were four points down with three minutes to play. I'm actually playing. I think we played against Bristol at Welford Road, back down in Leicester, and I tapped and went for the corner, thinking we had to get 5 points. Got tackled over the corner flag, no try, end of game. And my captain lad called Ben Fennell, just squawked over to me, almost in tears, and just pointed up at the ward. And, you know, it's one of the worst moments in my rugby career because for those lads at Durham, that was their. That was their Twicken them, if you like, that was their big chance to go and win the University Challenge. So I've won a few games and lost a few games as we'll go through in this, I'm sure in this interview. Definitely, you know, that's the sort of thing that can happen. And you, you try your best and you, you don't know. It doesn't always come off well.

Lord Russell Baker: 6:02

Life's all about making mistakes, isn't it? Because we all learn from those mistakes. Hopefully we learn, but life's all about making mistakes, isn't it, really? And making you a better person. So you look back at that, as you just said, and you think, well, if only I'd looked at the scoreboard. And I'm sure now, when or when you were playing professional rugby, your eyes were well and truly kept on the scoreboard at key moments.

Tim Stimpson: 6:23

Yeah, it's burned inside, like you said that that's a horrible mistake, but I didn't make it ever again, you know, and you've gotta learn from those mistakes. And I think when I'm coaching, I'm saying to the kids, don't be scared to make mistakes. I'd rather you made mistakes and try things rather than come off and be too scared to try. So, yeah, it's a big lesson.

Lord Russell Baker: 6:44

I mean, remember you said just a bit while ago that your school teacher said, you'll never make any money at rugby. I mean, you probably had some sense in that and truth in that, because going back, of course, rugby was always an amateur sport. There was no money, no professionalism as such in the game, was there? And fortunately had all changed, which I'm sure you, you enjoyed.

Tim Stimpson: 7:03

And he. And he was great. You know, I respected again, Mr. Pervin for telling me and having his opinion. He was only doing the best he could for me to make me focus on not just sport to try and get my English A Level sorted. And actually, yeah, rugby was amateur at that time. And whilst I was at school, there was an approach from a rugby league team from Featherstone to say, does Tim want to come and play professionally? But I don't know. Back to my family history, my granddad had been a professional soccer player and he'd lost most of his like playing years while he was. During the war.

Lord Russell Baker: 7:39

Yeah.

Tim Stimpson: 7:39

So I think they, we'd call it now, but a mental breakdown, I think. But he was never able to have the life he wanted to give to his, to his wife. So when I came along, it was never an idea that sport will be your savior. Sport, yes, it's probably going to break you. So a bit scared of it. And then I think I also had a chat with my cricket master at school, Mr. Jackson, who'd been a former professional cricketer, and said, Tim, you could go and play cricket. You could go, you're good enough. So don't discredit that now. Don't. When you're talking about what you're going to do after school, are you going to go to university? And. But again, I was too scared to try to rely on sport in those days. And my dad always said you need a three legged stool, you need to invest in each leg and they're your friends, your work life and your sport life. Which it basically meant I've got to get on there and go to university and carry on developing my academic or professional skills, if you like. And then sport just carried on in the background.

Lord Russell Baker: 8:41

Yeah, fantastic. Good, good advice from your father for sure. Then of course, your Rugby union life started out at Wakefield Rugby Football Club, who sadly folded 2004 as a, as a result of poor finances. So please tell us more about your time at Wakefield Rugby Football Club and of course what made your decision or who was influential at the time to start your rugby life at Wakefield Rugby Football Club. Tim?

Tim Stimpson: 9:05

Well, I gotta say, Wakefield wasn't my first club. Sandal actually. So in Wakefield there's a junior rugby club that's still there called Sandal, which is where we lived. Okay. And my dad was the first team coach, so actually I used to go down with him as a toddler and that was my child care was basically been, you know, you're at the rugby, your dad's playing, you watch the final score, you have a hot dog, you get the ball out.

Lord Russell Baker: 9:33

Brilliant times.

Tim Stimpson: 9:34

If you're lucky, you're able to carry the flags out into the corners and maybe the, the plate of oranges. And so yes, I was brought up by the rugby club on a weekend and so naturally on a Sunday morning, I think I was four for a few weeks when I first started playing for the under eights. So I went. So on Saturdays was watching dad. Sundays was me down there playing mini rugby until I was 15, 16 and then. So I was playing at school then. And then I was able to go and play for the men's team down at Wakefield. That was College Grove. So we had some great players like Mike Harrison and Dave Scully and Brian Barley. So it was known as the dad's army back in the day. And I was the young kid that was adopted by these great players. So I suppose that was a. I remember my godfather and my dad coming to watch me play those early games down at college. Growing. Playing for. Playing for Wakefield, which was the first, if you like. The first. I think I played one or two games for sandal men midweek and then I went down to Wakefield. Cause that was still, you know, in the courage leagues. It was a. A decent level of rugby and it was a step up from Blaine. Schoolboy stuff.

Lord Russell Baker: 10:42

Yes.

Tim Stimpson: 10:43

And then. And I'd come back from university and play a little bit in the. In the, like the Christmas holidays and that sort of thing. So play a bit of first team stuff down there. And I. That was. You know, there's a guy called Terry Garnet, so I don't know how honest we could be on this podcast, but.

Lord Russell Baker: 10:58

Pretty honest. I think you could be as honest as you like.

Tim Stimpson: 11:00

Yeah, yeah, he was one of those. And I'm still on the Wakefield All Boys WhatsApp group, but he was basically like a bully. You know, it's a big, big prop. And he said, I think it was Christmas and I'd just been. I was proud as punch. I got a really nice new coat and I turned up and he went, oh, that's a nice coat. And I went, thanks very much. No, no, that's a nice coat. I'll have it. So it took my new coat off me and. And I just remember thinking, well, that's it then. I can't fight with him. And then I went home and Mum said, where's your coat? And dad said, shh, just leave it. At the end of the season, Terry gave him a coat back. And I think it was just one of those things that you're a student, you think you're something special. Pipe down. If I want to take your coat off you, I will do. And don't think you're special. And it was. I think throughout your rugby career, you've always got to try and earn the respect of the Forwards, they're the boys doing all the work. They're the hard lads. And we really, as backs, we sort of take the mickey because we can read. It's harsh, but. Harsh.

Lord Russell Baker: 12:02

Harsh but true and fair.

Tim Stimpson: 12:05

So there's always this tension between the backs and the forwards because, you know, the backs are show ponies, they take all the credit, they score the tries, they, they kick the goals, whatever, and the forwards, usually the ones doing all the graft. And so it's really important as a back that you earn the respect of your forward because without them you're knackered. And that's always as an important lesson to learn, you know, when you're coming through as a junior.

Lord Russell Baker: 12:28

Absolutely. And. And that level of rugby as well, you would have also. Also played against some good players, but also some really poor players too, I should imagine. So it's a great learning curve, isn't it? Level of rugby. Putting some thugs in there that really couldn't play rugby properly. But were big, strong, hard, tough in the scrum. All the usual things you'd expect at union football.

Tim Stimpson: 12:50

Yeah, before cameras, wasn't it? We didn't have. Yeah, you know, fourth officials. You didn't have filming. I think a little bit. Some of it went on to rugby special eventually, but it was never interfered with it. It was down to the ref.

Lord Russell Baker: 13:03

Yes.

Tim Stimpson: 13:04

And it was all about getting the ref on side and making sure that the, you know, as a very early lesson that, you know, you give respect to the referee. There's no point in rugby in talking back to the ref because they'll just march you 10 yards and, and hate it for the rest of the game. And you're not going to win without the reference.

Lord Russell Baker: 13:21

I quite agree. Yeah. And of course, going back in the day as well, you know, the scrums were tough, weren't they? You know, you often ended up with players with the quality cauliflower ears as they were well known. You don't see that these days, do you? It's very soft in the approach now in the scrums, isn't it? Things change quite a bit.

Tim Stimpson: 13:38

It's not soft. You can't say that. I mean, we used to have this big thing where the forwards, it would just be a battle, you know, they'd. For a scrum, they'd. They'd sort of smash into each other and that was ferocious and obviously dangerous, but somehow those front row boys loved it and they just wanted to smack each other, punch each other, gouge each other and then get pissed with each other.

Lord Russell Baker: 14:01

And that's and that's what I mean by soft. Didn't mean it in terms of the game soft. It was just. It's changed a lot. Not as hard, really, in the approach as it used to have. I preferred the old game. I was brilliant.

Tim Stimpson: 14:11

Yeah, well, I think there's a difference because when, you know, it was a game for everyone, wasn't it, and everybody had to go to work, there wasn't really the odd. There weren't any professionals when I was playing. There was a few lads, let's say, worked in the military that maybe were. Didn't have to do a lot of fighting on the. On the front line, provided they did well playing for the cavalry or playing for their battalion and then playing for the army or the navy. There were some lads that were school teachers that could probably coach all day and get away with it, but most of the lads had a trade. And so I think looking back, they were very brave to put themselves on the line, but they couldn't train with the intensity that the boys can now because they'd always have to go to work the next day. So it was one of those where you turned up on a Tuesday and a Thursday, did a bit of line outs, did a bit of handling, maybe a little bit of team prep and then you just kept it all ready for the weekend. Whereas obviously, as a pro, you're going in at sort of 7 o' clock on a Monday morning and they've got you all week and you're paid to eat and sleep, really, and then make sure you perform for me, especially at Welford Road, you know, in front of that crowd.

Lord Russell Baker: 15:20

Absolutely right, yeah, absolutely right. You then left Wakefield Rugby Football Club to play for West Hartlepool. So was it different there? Tell us more about your time at West Hartlepool. Interesting move.

Tim Stimpson: 15:33

Well, yeah, because I'd gone up to Durham and then. So Hartlepool's not far geographically, and I could. I could still study and do my third year at Durham and then go and play Courage one First Division rugby, which is where I needed to be to test myself against better players. So Hartlepool was brilliant. You know, we had a guy called Frank Dick who'd been the Great Britain athletics coach. So we, the first time I sort of trained properly and he'd give you training programs and he'd, you know, make you run bare feet for speed work. And we go down to Loughborough University and do all that sort of testing and, and weightlifting. So we had a really fit attitude. And if you're in the Northeast you know, you've got a sense of humor. So we still had the characters. So we had Stubbs and Stabler. So Stabler was the fly half detective, local, local copper. Stubsy was the old gnarly sort of Colombo type character that was the coach. And they'd look at us and say, hey, I want you to go and play with spotty arrogance. Just because we were students and we were, you know, naive and we're just up for it. And then he'd be thrown in with all these battle hardened pros. We had Rob Wainwright was brought down from Scotland, you know, we had Australian internationals, Nikiwi internationals and real, real hard working lads that could play, but they were unsung heroes. And I remember we battled really hard against the big teams like Gloucester and Leicester and Bath and we nearly won a few games. They made me captain halfway through the year, which was a real honor. That's good just to leave. I think we were struggling and I had a very, I've always had a very positive attitude towards, look, we can't beat them at their game, but what are our strengths? How can we be really strategic? And we had one lad who was a massive weightlifter, played 12, Emma. And he, I said, matt, your job is just to break the opposition. Your job isn't to be fancy and try flash things. It's a bit like an enforcer. Yes. And he got that and he'd go out and he'd remember him hurting people like the Glanville and Carling and whoever else, you know, was playing in the midfield against us. And we, we found an edge. So it was very, again, it was really happy times because we, we'd train hard, we'd play hard, win or lose. We then go out into Yarm and Tall Trees nightclub or get pissed in a puff and then you'd just go around again. So we had this, to be fair. I'd then jump in a car Sunday morning and go down to Twickenham for, for England training. But yes, it was still in what I'd call the amateur days. We trained, but we also socialized, which is almost the happiest time for your career because you, you're not just training ice bathing, et cetera, you're actually playing hard rugby like 90% of the lads do around the country on Saturdays and Sundays. Yes, but then you'd have a bit of a social time with your opposition. You'd always have a pipe with the opposite number, have a chat with him, which is amazing to get to know the, you know, and Straight away it doesn't really matter who's won. You're just respecting each other. Talk about the game, talk about life. Make a new mate and then. And off you go. And the away trips were amazing.

Lord Russell Baker: 18:51

I remember one of the best ones, weren't they?

Tim Stimpson: 18:53

Yeah. Well, it's amazing how many times you find yourself in the Weatherby Whaler on the way back to Hartlepool or you know you're coming up and you. You know having lock ins and. Because I'm from Wakefield. But it's nice. The rugby clubs up North, Newcastle and Hartlepool used to stop in Wakefield to get drunk on the way home. So you're coming back out of London and you'd pull in at Halifax or at Wakefield and have three or four pints and it just breaks the journey. So that was nice for me. I could sort of arrange to see a few mates on the way through.

Lord Russell Baker: 19:22

Yeah, I can imagine the away games being the better games. I really can. Because that's often the way in sport, isn't it? Really a lot of fun. I mean your big move then happened when you signed for Newcastle Falcons. What a side. They were known as Newcastle Red Bulls at the time. Of course. Who are a rugby union team that played or play in the Gallagher Prem. England's highest division of rugby union. Exciting times. Tim Newcastle Falcons.

Tim Stimpson: 19:46

Well, yeah, because when I was playing at Hartlepool I had a job at ici. So I was working as much as I could full time and then trying to train before work. You know, six o' clock in the morning, do a bit at lunchtime. There's a lovely girl called Angela that used to hide me in the afternoon because I need a bit of sleep. And then. And then I'd do training every night. Whereas we signed for Newcastle and all of a sudden you've got all day to train. I did go part time for a bit but it wasn't working. Before they sacked me I. I said look. Because rugby had gone full time pretty quickly. So then. Who do I remember there? That's Rob Andrew and Steve Bates and Dean Ryan with a coaching team that came up from Wasps and then they recruited a team to be competitive and they had a guy called Steve Black who again if you think about the most, the biggest inspirations on me. He's a phenomenal character. He was a brilliant personal fitness coach. But he was more than that. He was a playwright and a poet. He'd run the doors, you know as a bare knuckle fighter in. In Newcastle. And so he was the big Inspiration. And people like Johnny Wilkinson was there then. And if you, if you interview Johnny on this, he'd be saying, well, the person that really helped me become the athlete that I became and the confident person that went on to win a World cup is people like Steve Black. So Newcastle was a fantastic experience for most of it. So we got promoted in year one which was dead exciting. And you're flying. And then unfortunately I went off and played for the lions in that bit which was great because I was playing for England, playing for Newcastle, playing for the bar bars. It was all going the right way as a sort of 23 year old kid. And then unfortunately when I came back off the lions and I played another dozen games, I was given an ultimatum really by, by Rob Andrew to say, I want you to sign a longer contract to keep me under contract, to keep me there or I'm not going to play you anymore. And I felt that was a bit coercive and wasn't in my best interest. So I decided not to sign it. But then it meant that he didn't pick me again for the rest of the season. Which at the time was heartbreaking because you just, you just want to play. You know, you're just desperately fit. You played the best rugby of your life because you'd just been away with the lions and, and having to do warm ups and then, then don't do corporate when the match started was, was horrendous. But you know, I, I survived it and when I got away that gave me the inspiration to try and pick a rugby club that had good management and a sound financial footing. So yeah, it was a horrible time. Very. Yeah. You know, worst thing about it to be honest was you're fit and hungry to play and you England drop you because Clive said I can't pick you because you're not playing on for your club. But then your mates are also saying, you know, why aren't you playing? What's your agent doing? Why is he, why is he taking. And to be fair, it was nothing to do with that. It was just about. I think Rob had the challenge of trying to keep his squad together, a certain budget and because I was the first guy to renegotiate from the, if you like, the internationals that he'd brought in, he had no room to maneuver and I became a, you know, an unwilling victim of that. But you move on. Like you said, mistakes happen, bumps in the road. And what I was, what was good was I was able to leave and go and join Leicester, but I still have really happy memories of that first sort of year and a half at Newcastle because my granddad was living there. I actually went and lived with him alongside the Macmillan nurses that were looking after him as well. And so I had time with my granddad who's one of my big inspirations. So I'd never, never say that was a waste of time. That was a privilege.

Lord Russell Baker: 23:34

And all that happened in. In 1998, didn't it? You know, with the falling out with the Newcastle's management team and. And of course, as you say, Rob Andrew as well, who was a great player in his day as well. Rob Andrew, wasn't he? And. And of course you only made four appearances, Flynn, as they indeed won the premiership title as well. That must be quite disappointing. But at the end of the season you did sign for Leicester Tigers. A big move indeed. But what happened in your final season and the fallen out with Rob Andrew and the management team. I know you kind of explained a little bit probably around the finances, trying to tie you in for a longer period of time. You couldn't do that. But yeah, you joined the Leicester Tigers. That's an interesting story, isn't it? Really? Good year at Newcastle. A good learning curve for us.

Tim Stimpson: 24:16

Oh, you've got to be aware that professional sport is brilliant. If you fit. Yeah. And you're in favor. I mean.

Lord Russell Baker: 24:22

Absolutely.

Tim Stimpson: 24:22

And I'd always. I'd always had that. I'd had a dream start and a young England. So from under 16s, 18s, 21 students. I'd always been capped. I'd always been fit. I did actually have a bit of a season off under 15 with a knee. But that bounced back into 16s. So it always just been a rugby's great. Go and play your best. You get picked. Go and play your best. Get picked for England. Go and play for the Lions. And then it was just a big bump in the road just at the wrong time for my England career because obviously just got established. I'd learn. I learned a lot from that Lions tour. But it just meant that when I went back down to Leicester I just wanted to, you know, play and keep my nose clean and make sure that, you know, I earned the respect of what is now a really big club. I think it was hilarious. The very first day I turned up at Leicester for the preseason. I remember just being punched in the face by Richard Cockerell. Oh, nice.

Lord Russell Baker: 25:21

Welcome to the club.

Tim Stimpson: 25:22

Yeah, well, that's what it was. It was just a bit like, you know, if I hadn't been bullied by Terry Garner at Wakefield, I would have taken it personally. It's just something that the front row do to see whether or not you're a man or a mouse or whether you're pretentious, arrogant student who thinks he's special or whether you are going to earn our respect. So when he punched me, I hit him back three or four times because I've been good for you, brought up in Wakefield, so you got to look after yourself. So.

Lord Russell Baker: 25:48

Which you did. Fantastic story that.

Tim Stimpson: 25:51

That was because. That was awful because it was the first day and you're like, all I want to do is earn the respect to the team, you know, get myself in the squad. And Dino, Dean Richards, who was our boss at the time, he said, ocrel, Simpson, get into my porter cabin now. I want to worry my first day. And he said, I don't care what shite you've got going on with England, if you two don't like each other, don't you dare bring it into my club. So you drive away from training going, oh, man, what have I done? Then I found out, you know, I think it was somewhere like Cheltenham on the way back from Gloucester about four years later, I was having a drink with cockers and he said, you know what, Stamo Dino asked me to punch you. So it was just a. Dean Richards all the time had wanted to find out whether I was a decent bloke, I. E. A scrapper, someone that was prepared to look after myself and my teammates, or whether I was just there for the. For the money or for the glory. So I think I'd passed the Dino test, but it just took me four years to find out. This is. But yeah, Leicester was quite a funny place, mate. It's fun.

Lord Russell Baker: 26:57

I can imagine. And of course it started going your way at Leicester as well, because after the retirement of Joel Stransky In 1999, you became Leicester Tiger's principal goal kicker. A huge step forward. Tim, starting to work your way here.

Tim Stimpson: 27:10

Yeah, but I was gutted though, mate, because Joel, Joel was the main reason why I went. He was obviously won the World cup for South Africa in 95. He was a brilliant fly off. And if those that play rugby, you know that a fly half is the general and he understands. And I played fly half until I was 15 or 16 anyway. But it's very similar to a fullback. You sort of mid, in football parlance, you know, you're probably sitting eight or ten.

Lord Russell Baker: 27:34

Yes.

Tim Stimpson: 27:35

You're either, you know, pulling the strings and letting the lads go. And when Joel would put me through a hole because I knew what he was going to do. I could instinctively read him and knew what I was and we had a great combination going and then when he did his knee I was gutted because you want to play with the world's best players, of course you do. But yeah, by, because you know, I'd been working with Dave Ulrid from Hartlepool to Newcastle with Rob Andrew as a goal kicker and I'd always been a kicker. So it was, it was, I was ready to step up with Leicester which is, you know, why I went on and like you said, got all those points and what was nice actually, I actually coached Andy Goode well while I became the kicking coach while I was there as well. So I'm really pleased when you said a minute ago that Andy Goode has scored even more points and obviously Johnny Wilkinson was with me at Newcastle as, as a young kid coming through I was like the 23 year old International. So we've had that. You have a camaraderie between goal kickers. You know it's quite a lonely job but it's lovely when you spend time together with England or with coaching clinics that you all help each other and it's sort of whatever madness gets you through. And yeah, so I'm pleased that I got that chance with Leicester and it became a quite a key role that I played as part of that great team.

Lord Russell Baker: 28:57

And then of course in the 2001 Heineken Cup Final against Stade Francais, you converted Leon Lloyd's last minute try from the right hand touchline. Probably the most difficult position to kick a conversion from for a right footed player or kicker. I would say to be honest, your conversion put Leicester Tigers ahead 3430 which meant that to win the match that Francais would have to score try rather than the easier task of their fly half. Diego Domiguez. Domiguez. Domicare.

Tim Stimpson: 29:26

Dominguez.

Lord Russell Baker: 29:26

Yeah, Dominguez who kicked all the St. Francis points landing a goal. The. The game ended 3440 and the Heineken cup was yours. An incredible match which I'm sure you have many memories and stories to tell as well, Tim. What a great, great game that was. 34 30. Fantastic.

Tim Stimpson: 29:44

Yeah, I mean it was amazing because he. I think we'd won the domestic championship at Leicester for a couple of seasons. We, we'd set our stall out to say we want to be the European or the world's best club rugby team. And the way to do that you've got to win the biggest championship. So Northampton had won It. We hadn't won it, so we can't claim that we're the best. And so getting to that final was the final hurdle to get that first Heineken cup win. And so it was what we've been working towards for three years, really. And then all of a sudden, we're up against dad Francais and it's. We talk about it. Yeah. Amazing. They were full of star players. And Leicester generally had a very strong forward pack, which allowed me to kick a lot of goals. Because when you have dominance in the scrum, then the referee gives penalties and then the kicker is important to make the most of all the hard work the forwards are doing up front. We could score tries out wide, like Leon scored lots of great tries. But generally Leicester won the games up front. When we played that final, we're up against Stad Francais on a beautiful, hot, sunny day. It was really warm. It was, you know, everyone, most of my mates, even the guys that won World cup final, say that that's their favorite game. Amazing, because it was just. The atmosphere was electric. It was hot and everybody had to play out of their skin. And it came down to, you know, really fine margins. But I think, you know, I remember the heat, I remember the pressure. And actually kicked a goal from that touchline earlier in the game that had been. Not been allowed because we scored. Yeah. And I was gutted because I think he went over the top of the uprights and then touch. Jude said he didn't go over. And I was like, wow. So when. When we were finally awarded, Leon Austin and all those guys made it, made the try into the corner, I'd already had a cider and all day I'd been in this duel with Diego, as you said then, he's. He didn't mean he might have missed one, and I'd missed one, and it was sort of nine against eight, and it was a real battle and I knew I had to get it because, you know, he would have dropped a goal. He's so good, so talented. And the forward pack instead was so strong. So I just. To be honest, I did. What I've always done is that if ever you've seen Happy Gilmore, the. The movie that's all about how do you keep your head down? How do you focus on a golf ball? But I. I do the same with the rugby ball, so I focus on rugby ball. And I think the most important thing you can do is keep your head down, keep your head still, and make sure you're watching the ball as you make contact. And the way that I do that is that I put Rob Andrews face onto the rugby ball and, and that keeps my attention and it, does it work. Rob was, whatever happened, we did teach me discipline. He was a really hard working professional who, who taught us, me and Johnny, you know, a hard edge. And I'll always be grateful for what he did as a, as a goal kicking mentor as, as well. So you take the positives from people almost as a compliment. I'm going to put Rob's face as you remind me to be what we'd call cold evil, to really focus. And then I'd make sure I made contact with the ball before I looked to see where it had gone. And so I knew that I hit the ball, you know, middle of the middle and it sailed through the middle of the post and it's, you know, amazing. And then it meant that we, they had to score a try and they didn't quite make it. I was able to body check somebody I wouldn't otherwise have been able to cheat. These days it'd be a yellow card. But back in the day we just professional and we, we managed to hold on in against a forward pack that had beaten us up. But I think it was Pat Howard who was our mercurial center that day. He'd said, look guys, forget the strategy, it just isn't working. We're going to have to do different things. And so if ever you watch the video about you see Pat Howard kicking, he never kicked, you see Jordan Murphy kicking, you see Leon Lloyd kicking, we had to try something different. And that's what I love about that day, is that all the plans we'd made for three years weren't working. But we built trust in each other. So on the moment we were able to say, no, we've got, okay, we'll change it, we'll fix this. And we never, never gave up the belief that we could fix it. Even with Jono in the bin for punching someone.

Lord Russell Baker: 34:08

Fantastic. What a great story. Great story. Great match, great victory. Amazing. And of course, as mentioned previously, you played for England as fullback between 1996 and 2002, narrowly missing the 2003 World cup victory in Australia. So tell us more about your England days. Your debut match, of course, the 1999 World cup, the Six Nation battles, they're a powerful thing. And why you didn't make the World Cup. Winning, winning England team of 2003. Must be a story behind that.

Tim Stimpson: 34:38

Well, it's a big regret, isn't it? You know, you think I'd have loved to have played. I think the first thing was the 1999 World cup actually because on the back of recovering, if you like, from what happened at Newcastle.

Lord Russell Baker: 34:50

Yes.

Tim Stimpson: 34:51

And then went and won it with Leicester and I was playing well with Leicester and carving things up and you think. And I thought I was going to be picked for that 99 World cup and actually internally within the England squad I was. And so my kit was labeled as TS and I was just expecting the public announcement to be Tim Stimson in the squad. And unfortunately I'm led to believe Martin Johnson told me this, that Clive had a dream of the night before the selection was announced that he needed to take another center and he didn't tell me and just had a change of heart and gave all my kits somebody else. So I. So I missed that on the 99 World cup on a dream which you know that's really hard and walking around the Lake District, very hard. Just avoid contact with anybody.

Lord Russell Baker: 35:37

That's confidence destroying, isn't it? That's awful. As you say, just because of a.

Tim Stimpson: 35:42

Dream, you know, you just want to know why, don't you in life if you can do. If you've got a plan. So what happened? You know, I'm fast forwarding a lot of this here but back in then we were Fast forward to 2002 and I'd been in the England squad, played in those. We'd been beating South Africa, Australia, New Zealand at Twickenham. It was when England were really flying. I think even we'd say the England team was even better in 2001, 2002 than it was in 2003. We'd start, you know, we started to be a little bit more conservative possibly. But in 2002 I said to Clive, can I have a cup of tea? Because I'm worried about what happened in 1999. I'm in year 22. I've done, I've taken the chances at Twickenham that I was given. I want to know what I can do to stay in your squad. And so eventually I sat him down for a cup of tea and I said, Clive, what have I got to do to be picked for the World Cup? Let me know, I'll work away. This is really important to me. And to be fair, he finished his cup of tea and just put it down and said, well that's for you to work out. And that was the end of the conversation. So it wasn't really helpful. Again, it was disappointing. But you know, I think why didn't I get picked? You can probably say it's gotta be down to the talent of the guys that did. There were some great players that went to that World cup, you know, the likes of Ian Bolshaw and Matt Perry and people. And then Josh Lucy was someone that hadn't been on the scene but he worked so hard at his game and he played for that really successful Wasps team that he was a, you know, he's a brilliant player and I have a lot of respect for the guys that did get picked. So rather than think poor me at the time I just thought, you know what, on some days I'd have been the best fullback, other days they outplayed me. It's really close. And I think ultimately that Clive went with the guts of the people that he'd worked more with. So I think Perry, Bolshaw and Josh and at the time there's a, there's an incredible player called Jason Robinson as well. So I still think when I'm asked, you know Tim, who do you respect the most of who you played with and against. Jason Robinson is phenomenal. And he was, he was a winger more than a fullback but obviously covered fullback. He played fullback a lot for sale but he did brilliantly both in rugby league and he could win games for the Lions against Australia, et cetera, et cetera. And I think one other factor was that Johnny Wilkinson was arguably the world's best goal kicker, you know and he was always playing. So if he didn't have a goal kicking wizard at 10, who's the next best? You know it'd probably be me. But because Johnny was always there and Lala called Paul Grayson who was another phenomenal fly off for England. So we had a. And then even so some part time kickers like Matt Dawson that thought they could do it but you know, joking so the, so we really had a lot of talent knocking about. We had lots of captains in that side, lots of leaders, lots of proven, you know, I say world class players. So I think rather than me be bitter about it, you say well actually I was lucky to be part of a team that was as strong as anybody in the world. We managed to beat, you know, New Zealand at home. It was great to be in that environment and I've learned from that environment and taken it on into my life and thought or I would like to manage better than Clive did because I don't think I ever got the feeling of belonging. So when I'm coaching now or in business now, it's, it's really important that you spend the time one on One to get to know people off the field, what makes them tick, what's, what hurts, what helps. How can we have an honest plan about. Okay, well let's say you're not very good at catching the eyeball. Let's, let's teach you how to catch the high ball and if you can't get to the standard then you'll know why you're not picked. But I just, rather than it being a horses for courses or a subjective view as a coach, I think it's really important that. And when I'm coaching even the kids now, it's get out there and have a go boys. And I don't care if you make mistakes, I'd rather you dug in, but come over here and let's work on these skills again. And so I love to give one on one feedback to players so that they can understand where they are and what they've got to do to get better. So what I don't like is when dads shout rubbish at referees or shout rubbish at players and then don't teach them how to do it any better. So that's what I've had to manage some of the parents and say this is rubbish and come on. And you think, well, hang on, unless you're going to be constructive and positive and you're going to take a kid out to one side and teach them how to do it, how about you button up because yeah, it's important that we build confidence through sport. It's important that these kids know that when I get the ball I know what I'm going to do with it and if I make a mess of it. So there was a great. Excuse me, there's a lot of criticism online for swearing. But one of my other inspirational teachers was a guy called Tis A Taylor who was my coach at West Hartlepool and he was a, an Australian nuggety sort of surfer dude from Manly and he went, mate, if you up, just fix up. Fuck it. That was him as a coach. Mate, if you fuck up, just fix that. Typical.

Lord Russell Baker: 41:10

Typical. Yeah, brilliant.

Tim Stimpson: 41:12

Yeah, but, but it's so simple. What a great message. So don't, don't, don't. Let, don't. If you make a mistake. We all make mistakes. We all do. You know, you ask Ben K, he dropped the ball over the line in the World Cup Final. But he didn't give up. He thought, what's my next job, next job? And that was a big thing about working in that Clive Woodward environment that we always just kept pushing and if we'd make mistake your mate had fixed it for you, he'd pick you up and that was that great story. I think it was Will Greenwood went over to Ben K. And if you heard this story and Ben, you know, all the forwards, never mind Ben, catch the next one, focus on the next line out, focus on the next scrum, focus on the next tackle and Will Greenwood walk to Hereford to Ben in the World cup finalist said, maybe that's going to live with you for the rest of your life. But, but, but we were mates and we still are. So, yeah, your mate can look you in the eye and give you the honest truth and you can learn from that. And I think when you call this podcast, if I'm allowed, Tim Stimson, the Guided Missile, are you gonna, gonna explain what that is at some stage or.

Lord Russell Baker: 42:19

I will come in at the late.

Tim Stimpson: 42:20

Back end of the TV or leave it then. Yeah, definitely.

Lord Russell Baker: 42:24

So that's all good stuff. I mean, Tim, you were so unlucky. The 1999 World cup, missing out on a dream. 2003, obviously the World cup winning team, but you played in the, as you said, the 2000, 2001, 2002 team that was building up to that World cup winning team. So arguably you did play some fantastic games for England who were at the time the world number ones, weren't they? So it's fantastic to be part of that buildup. Unlucky for the World Cups, you then went on the 1997 British Lions tour to South Africa. I do love the British Lions tours, they're incredible. I think it's fair to say you would have played in the tests against the Springboks at first choice fullback, or I should say as first choice fullback, were it not for the better goal kicking of Neil Jenkins, which proved crucial to the Lions series victory. You must have been bitterly disappointed yet again not to get a test under your belt for the British Lions. It's not just England, it's the British Lions as well. Narrowly missing out for various reasons. It's a shame.

Tim Stimpson: 43:25

Yeah. But I did manage to play in, in the third Test match. So I am a. Oh, you did, Yeah. I am a cat line and it's a funny one that because yeah, I think I was the best fullback on.

Lord Russell Baker: 43:39

That one, no doubt.

Tim Stimpson: 43:41

And we played some great rugby in, in some of the provincial games, in the warm up games. But I think what was beautiful about that tour as well was that it was brilliantly managed. So whereas I've been a little bit critical of some of the things that Clive did the opposites to be said, for what McGeekin did. Telfer and Cotton, and we could talk for hours about how they selected the squad. They didn't select necessarily the best players in each country. They selected the best players who could do the job that was needed. So would they be flexible? Would they go underneath the big South Africans? So the likes of Tom Smith was never going to be stronger than Oz Durant, but we'll find a guy that get underneath him in the scrum, so it negates their strength. And then we picked so fast forwards who were able to offload and could play a fast, fluid game to keep the ball moving away from the big bullies, if you like. They're bigger, faster, stronger than us, but. And it's hard to tell Lawrence Dalalio that he's not hard enough. Definitely. I never said. But you know very well. Yeah, man for man, they were. They'd been professional almost for longer and they were fitter and stronger and they just won the World cup in 95 with Nelson Mandela and all that. So they were really flying. So we had to find a way of going around them. And that was the genius of McGeekin. So leave your egos at home, boys, and this is how we're gonna play. So we developed that style, which I loved, and it was all about, you know, vealprote's cord or pass and move. In soccer, you're always doing triangles as opposed to trying to go through the Route 1. You're going round, people. So, yeah, I mean. If we'd wanted to score tries in the final, they'd put me on. But what they thought was that it's going to be so tight and these big international matches are so tight, that it's going to come down to the odd goal kick. And the most proven goal kicker in the world was Neil Jenkins.

Lord Russell Baker: 45:38

Yes, indeed.

Tim Stimpson: 45:38

And. And so he. He didn't have to run with the ball. He wasn't there to score tries. His job was to kick the goals. And he did it brilliantly in front of all those people with all that pressure. And. And as it happens, Africa didn't pick a proven goal kicker for the first two tests. And that cost them because they're. Whereas Jenks hardly ever misses, they missed four or five and it was. And pivotal. And so you think, well, obviously I'd have loved to play in the test match. Obviously, I think I could have kicked the goals. I did outscore Jenks on the tour, but the important kicks were in the test matches. And so people ask me, tim, what's the most memorable or most important game of rugby you've ever played. And you think, well, one of them's at Paris. That's the final. And then the other one's gotta be the winning the series with the British and Irish Lions against Africa.

Lord Russell Baker: 46:31

Oh, wow. Yes.

Tim Stimpson: 46:32

And where was I? Well, I was in the crowd. So we were in Kings park in Durban, South Africa, and I was in the players enclosure for the dirt trackers. If, like the guys that don't get in the 22 with my suit, a bit like this. But when Jenkins kicked the goals and when Jerry Guscott dropped the goal to win the second test and they blew the final whistle and I jumped up one, I was a Lion supporter, but I was also integrally important to that Lions team. I never felt like I was a. An also round or a bag carrier or a dirt tracker, like I said, actually felt like this is the most important thing I've ever done in rug.

Lord Russell Baker: 47:14

Brilliant.

Tim Stimpson: 47:15

And so I've got no regrets, you know, again, I don't carry regrets or pain with me. I've had quite a lot of setbacks in my career, but luckily, I think I was prepared by my family to expect, you know, shit's coming, you're gonna have to deal with it. It's how you deal with it will be the defining moments. So get dropped, get injured, don't get picked, don't get paid. That's gonna happen. But you've still got that strength of being loved by your family, respected by your mates. You're never gonna cross anybody. You're never gonna badmouth anybody. You just carry on playing with a straight bat. And that hopefully will mean that you'll get what you deserve and.

Lord Russell Baker: 48:01

Exactly.

Tim Stimpson: 48:02

So I don't have. You know, I think I did go and see some counselors after rugby a long time later, and they said, wow, you must be coping with so much emotional baggage. But I think that was more about relationships and that was more about having to be a carer and that sort of thing than it was, you know, what you've missed out on this World cup and you. You missed out on that Lions match. Now I just feel so happy that I'm a British lion and so proud to have been part of something so important.

Lord Russell Baker: 48:34

Absolutely right. And of course, in your. Your tour with the British Lions, Ian McGeegan, of course, who was obviously coaching, was part of that infamous or famous 1974 tour of South Africa when the. When the 99 call went up. So I'll take it. On your tour. There was no plans for a 99 call again.

Tim Stimpson: 48:53

We were ready. You're ready. We were ready. Yeah, you gotta be ready because you have you when you're in the. I remember even as a kid, I went across Africa and some second road just smashed my nose across my face. When I was 17, it's a physical environment. When I played in that 2001, 2002 game at Twickenham, I was pinned on the floor and I was getting my face filled in by some great big farmer because they weren't happy about the score. So you can't go to South Africa and not be ready for a physical battle. You know, that's the hardest place. You know, at the moment, they're the world's best. Probably their second team is still arguably the second best team in the world. And they've done it by changing rugby with what they call the bomb squad. They sort of won a World cup by playing five second rows. They're so big and strong and fit that they can get the ball and keep the ball and wear you down. And so, yeah, I mean, we were ready for the physical battle and we lost some lads on the way. You know, we lost Doddy Weir with a stamp. We lost. Probably our best player was Rob Howley with his shoulder. Will Greenwood obviously swallowed his tongue and was, you know, he was saved by, saved by the dock. And so you, you lose players on any tournament, you know, because it's, it's an attritional match.

Lord Russell Baker: 50:10

Yes.

Tim Stimpson: 50:11

But then you just got to say, look, I'm still healthy. What would they give for a chance to do what you've got a chance to do? And I, I, I've always felt that, that if you're scared of failure, just think about how much somebody else would like just one chance to live in your shoes, to kick that goal at Welford Road or at Twickenham. And then you think, well, how. What right have I got to be nervous? I'm the best person in the world at being me. There's no if not me, who, if not now, when? So that frees me up to think, you know what? I'll give it my best shot. And it might not be perfect, but if I try hard enough, I'll get enough.

Lord Russell Baker: 50:50

Yep, you make your own luck in the end, don't you? It needs a lot of effort and you were part of it. As you say, Tim, fantastic honor to have, which I know you, you accept with, with glowing colors. So that's fantastic. Then of course, just to change it a little bit, in 2002, in the 2002 Heineken cup semi final against. Now I'm going to get this name wrong. I will say Flanelli, but you'll correct me.

Tim Stimpson: 51:14

Yeah, you got to spit a lot.

Lord Russell Baker: 51:15

Yeah, you got to spit a lot. That's why I can't pronounce it. So with only a few minutes remaining, the score was 1012, 2, the Welsh side. Yeah, I can't spit, honestly. The. The Tigers were awarded a penalty at a scrum inside their own half and you elected to go for the goal from 16 meters out. The ball hit one of the posts and the crossbar before going over to give the Tigers a 1312 lead. I mean, what a kick which led, which they, they held out, you know, the Tigers held out to gain the victory. So to tell us more about that semi final match, I mean a huge kick to win the match too. I mean, that's some kick, isn't it? 60 meters out, hit the crossbow on 80.

Tim Stimpson: 51:56

I exaggerated. No, but it was one of those. So we'd won that Paris final and then we tried to retain it. How do we stay the best, you know, the best teams in the world stay at the top. So they're talking about the Washington Redskins or the Chicago Bulls or Liverpool or Man United. It's not about getting to the top, it's staying at the top. So staying there, we changed our mindset. I said, right, we've now got to win it again and to win it you've got to play against the best. And we played against this clinically team was full of Welsh internationals like Scott Quinnell and Steve Jones and that. So. And again it was a really tight battle and it was really windy, so it meant that it was a scrappy affair. So I think Harry Ellis had slid in through one of our, one of our tries and I think even Steven Jones thought that, you know, the game was almost up and kick the ball off Phil. So what it meant was I was stood at fullback getting really frustrated, thinking, when am I going to get a chance to win this game? Running out of time. Yeah. So. Eventually there was a penalty, as you said, awarded on our 10 meter line. But there's a story there as well because in the preparation for the game, Dino Dean Richards, our coach, was really thorough and he'd always assess the opposition and the referee. So in his notes he said, look, this referee doesn't like to give kickable penalties from scrums. So Darren Garforth, our silverback man, voted most likely to have sex outside of his own species, but he's the big enforcer. He remembered what Dino said and said, this referee doesn't give penalties that are kickable. So I allegedly might collapse the scrum. So I think Darren collapsed the scrum so that we got the penalty on our 10 meter line, thinking we can kick the ball into the corner and try a line out, catch and drive and try and either get a penalty down there or get a try. But what he. And then. But what I'd done that week is I'd gone up to Nottingham Forest every day. I'd managed to bribe the groundsman with a packet of sweets or chocolate bar. Can you let me on the pitch just for 10 minutes? Because I want to do my prep. And when you're a goalkicker, the length of the grass is different, right? The, the wind that comes round the stadium is different. Depending on wind direction, it tends to loop round. So a bit like a golfer, you want to. You want to know what the ball's going to do when it starts losing energy. So I'd done my prep and I knew that I could kick a ball from the 10 meter line. And then when I ran forward from foot, I said to referee, referee, we're going for posts. And as soon as somebody says that the ref doesn't change his mind, the captain, Martin Johnson went, oh, okay, stamo, you know, what have you done there? Because he probably forgot to ask me, because he'd always ask me in the game, stemmo, can you kick it? What percentage chance have you got? And then he'd decide to say, line out or kick. But because it was so far back, Jono forgot, I think, in the pressure to ask me, and I knew that I could kick that. So I ran forward and went for going for posts. But then when the ref said, okay, going for post, he then walked backwards. So he walked back towards me. I'd called that from 40 yards away. Yeah. And then he'd walked it. And I thought, oh, no, that's a little bit too far. So again, I didn't panic. I just said, you know, can I have a glass of. Glass of water? And took the water and handed it back to the reflection. And as I did that, I. I took a couple of steps forward. Then when I reached out for the kicking tee, I. I reached out for the kicking tee, put it down on the ground, just, just a couple of yards forward. So it went from probably 62 to, they said about. 59. And so usually that wouldn't make any difference, would it? But because the ball hit the crossbar and then the post and went over. So it was never any doubt. Those inches that I stole made a difference. Which is why Scott Quinnell and his mates aren't very happy with me about that. We've had many a pint since and he just said fair place to mow. You know, you kicked it and we wish you hadn't. But well done for stepping up and taking responsibility.

Lord Russell Baker: 56:08

Yeah, great, great, great confidence. That was doing that.

Tim Stimpson: 56:11

Just doing your job, I think. I think I can't do the hard grunt that the big strong boys do. You know, I'm not the guy that wins the line out or calls the line out. I'm not the guy that plays for half. My job is to do my bit really well and then I give the ball to the people who are better than me when it's their chance. So give the ball to Jordan Murphy if he's got to beat somebody one on one. But when it came to my job, that's my job and I'm going to get that done.

Lord Russell Baker: 56:35

Exactly. Which you did. And of course Leicester Tigers were in their second consecutive final and of course you went on to win the final against Munster. So capturing the Heineken cup for the second time in back to back victories. It's incredible. That is. You're also. Also kicked a penalty and a conversion in the final. I mean the great memories, Tim, aren't they huge victories for you and the Leicester Tigers. I mean massive.

Tim Stimpson: 56:57

I think out of all the games that's probably my best performance was that, that, that, that millennium as it's called now the principality. But I had a game against Ronan Ogara who's now probably one of the best coaches in the world. But it was that time. He's one of the best fly halves and we had a battle as fallback and fly half and so nobody else will know, but he'll know and I know that I did all right that day. And then he gated the monster game plan and I also threw a dummy to Gervin Dempsey that I then gave the ball to Jordan Murphy. So I remember it and I think that was when I really went for it because I think it was one of those days where I was needed to do something different because.

Lord Russell Baker: 57:40

And you did.

Tim Stimpson: 57:40

The opposition was so. Yeah, yeah. So I've got very happy memories. As I said, it didn't always go well. I remember I missed the kick for West Hartlepool from in front of the post. That was an anti sport in bloomers. I remember getting a score on playing for Durham University against Bristol and. And I Didn't make those that World Cup. Yeah, I didn't play. But overall, you think, you know what I've got so grateful to have played with such great players that could give me the confidence to be better than I would have been without them. So you've quite great. You've got to be happy with that.

Lord Russell Baker: 58:13

You have indeed. And to add to that as well, you also won a record five consecutive Premiership titles with Newcastle Falcons, of course, when you were there after that one year. And the Leicester Tigers. I mean, five consecutive Premiership titles is no mean feat, is it, Tim? It seems very impressive. I mean, which was the most memorable Premiership final win and why?

Tim Stimpson: 58:37

Tough one. Probably the first one with Leicester because it was the start of a new era. There'd been a changing of the guard. You know, John Wells, Dean Richards took over. Pat Howard, who came in as backs coach and, and. And it was the first time we really delivered it. You know, we got together as a new crew. It's a big club. It's a bit like playing for Manchester United where you're expected to bring home the silverware. And doing it was great. And I think especially for me having left Newcastle, who'd won it the year before, but without me, it was nice to put one over on them. And I remember, I think I broke the individual point scoring record playing against Newcastle for Leicester that year at Welford Road. So there was some unfinished business there. And it was good to get one over on the guys that sort of had shafted me in the past.

Lord Russell Baker: 59:33

Yeah, fantastic. Fantastic. I mean, that's a huge record. To have five consecutive Premiership title wins is just incredible. Two clubs. And of course, in 2003, it was rumored that you were linked to French club Perpignan. Despite having time left on your contract at Leicester Tigers, despite initial denials from Tiger's management, you did sign and move to France after the 2003 World Cup. I mean, Tigers released you from your contract. However, you failed to play for Perpignan for whatever reason and in 2004 returned to England to play for Leeds Tykes. So what's the story behind your move to Perbignan, Tim? And what appears to have been a wrong move? Is it injury or what?

Tim Stimpson: 1:00:13

Was it bad timing, mate? It was awful.

Lord Russell Baker: 1:00:15

Bad timing happens, doesn't it?

Tim Stimpson: 1:00:18

And also, we'll put it in context. So I. I missed out on that 2003 World cup because I thought like, okay, my England career is over. I need to go and have a new experience. To be fair, there was some thinking about the future because you could earn twice as much tax free playing Perpignan and. But they were signing up a, you know, an international, a bit like Newcastle back in the day. They were recruiting from Australia. So Scott, they had like, Daniel Herbert, the most capped center. Scott Robertson, who's now the keep New Zealand all black coach. He was coming in, Dan Luger was there. My mate Perry had gone. So it was about a chance to go. You know what, they've been after me for three or four years. We kept playing against Perpignan. They kept saying, le Grand Boutique, you must come and play with us. And they'd been after me for ages. And I thought, you know what? Why not go and live on the beach, yeah, and go and do it again with a new crew, learn French and all that. So that was my goal. And so I went out there wanting to do well. And unfortunately, after I signed and played some more games for Leicester, I then found a benign tumor in my knee. So it was a horror of a thing. You kicked a ball playing against Leeds. Why is that so sore? I better get it, just check it out and then, wow, there's a tennis ball grown in my knee. You better get that taken out. So I got that removed and they said it was benign. And you think, brilliant, I just need to get fit. Unfortunately, I got a bit of an infection on the flight over to France, which meant that I had to open up my knee again, which meant I wasn't ready to play the first American cup game. But they wanted me to be ready because they'd paid a lot of money for me and they had lots of pride invested in this. Legrand Bouta arrived by private jet and went and had a lovely private meals with all these partners. And actually my first training session, I had to do a hundred times 100 meters with loads of blokes from Barcelona watching me with dark glasses on. It's horrendous. But, yeah, I can imagine. So they made me play on one leg. We say it's chocolate. So as soon as I caught the ball and tried to run, I fell over because my leg was still unstable from the surgery and the infection. So unfortunately they weren't happy. They thought I must have known about my tumor.

Lord Russell Baker: 1:02:30

They didn't.

Tim Stimpson: 1:02:30

They didn't want to pay me, so they didn't pay me. And so eventually I had to go to court to get released. So my dream move to France ended up being an eight, nine month nightmare.

Lord Russell Baker: 1:02:41

Nightmare, yeah, absolutely.

Tim Stimpson: 1:02:43

Where you become a victim of, you know, professional sport when from a club perspective, you understand that they've signed a player because he was fit and they wanted me to deliver on the fit on the pitch. But I couldn't deliver because I had a bad leg. So they should have said okay to go and get fit and when you fit will play it. But they made me play too early under pressure probably. So, yes, it ended up being. I had to. I had to go to court. I had to get Eric Cantona's lawyer, Natalie Brandon to represent me and it took two years. So. So that's what happened. It meant that I was just doing physio in France and eventually I came home. I went off to Australia where my sister lives and just worked out in a police gym in Sydney for, for the summer, trying to rebuild my leg. And then I got up to Leeds because. I think Lester offered me a contract. I think Wasps offered me a contract. But Leeds was back home, Leeds was back to where I'd come from and they were promising a player coach role. And I thought, well, I can go and live with mum and dad while I get established. That'll be nice. And then I can, you know, develop my coaching skills. With a view probably to coming back to Leicester as director of rugby. That was probably my plan at the time. Unfortunately, when I got to Leeds they obviously, I'm sorry, we've made a mistake. We've already got a coach so you just have to play. Which is a bit of a shock. And then I played up at Leeds. But it did take me another, I don't know, six months of training to get back to full fitness. So I was really pleased with finally getting fit. And I remember scoring a couple of tries and a load of points in the power gen cup semi final. And I thought, finally I'm back. You know, I'd made it back into the. We used to hill runs at Headingley. No, round a park it was. And I'd made it back into the top five in this Leeds team and I'd fight. They'd been joking with me saying, stimmer, you're brilliant on one leg. You keep running around in circles and loads of these. I think as a bloke called Marshall who was played 93 games for New Zealand and he said, stimmer, I can't understand why you're not playing more often. You know, what have you said to the coach? What are you doing with the coach's wife? It's a typical Kiwi, sort of, yeah. But I meant so much to me because I was so frustrated not playing more at Leeds, having spent all that time getting Fit again. So. Yeah, so that's why. That's what happened in Perpignan. It was just a really bad situation to find a tumor. Yeah. And it was another one of those where I can only take the positives out of it. I, you know, I made some good friends over in France. I picked up a bit of the language and. But then I realized that it's not a good place to be if you're injured.

Lord Russell Baker: 1:05:32

Absolutely. They seem to be treated, you know, really unfairly there in France, which is a huge shame. They should have kept you back. They should have got you recovered first, back to full fitness to force you to play like that because they wanted you to play knowing very well you'd been under the knife. You had surgery, you'd had a tumor removed or sat benign, as you said. You know, a bit more understanding would have been more thankful, wouldn't it? But not the case. But while at Leeds Tykes, I know you talked about it already in the semi final kicking points. You helped them win the Power gen Cup in 2005. Of course, because they did get to the final, they did win it. However, you were not in the squad for the final itself. You decided to retire from playing for Leeds Tykes to pursue a career in coaching in January 2006. So how was the switch to coaching and who did you coach at the time after retiring from Leeds Tykes as a player?

Tim Stimpson: 1:06:23

Yeah, I, I just wanted to, you know, I. I was probably popping a lot of pills, you know, painkillers to train and to play. I'd. It was easy when you're in your 20s, early 30s, and then just having spent so much time getting fit then, I was still. I was starting to creak and I just thought, well, now, rather than play down, rather than having been, I got fit, broke on my personal best at sort of 33, 34. But I still wasn't gonna make it anymore in the, in the, in the, in the top end. So I thought, before I'm broken, I'll go now. And I was sort of playing. So I went to Nottingham because Nottingham was the, the top feeder club, like Division 1, out of the Premiership.

Lord Russell Baker: 1:07:05

Yes.

Tim Stimpson: 1:07:06

Where I could then coach with some of the best Leicester players that weren't quite ready for first team at Leicester again with a view to saying, well, you know, my mates are still running Leicester. We're working in partnership. So people like Matt Smith, who ended up playing hundreds of games for Leicester, came and had 18 games for me as a center. So I was able to help him with his agoraphobia which we joke about because he kept making breaks and then panicking. But it's just you're able to get hold of like a young 19, 20 year old when they're really talented, the world's in front of them and they just need. In my opinion, it's great to have a gray hair now or an old head just to take you under the wing. And that was my job, was to try and teach those lads at Nottingham. Some of the softer skills, some of the clever bits. They're really fit, they're training really hard, they're working really hard. But how can you pass on some of your wisdom? And that was going pretty well, unfortunately. Well, very fortunately my, me and my wife got pregnant and she was teaching down in London and I was messing about coaching in Nottingham thinking, well, this isn't really going to work, is it? So, no, it's not. That was why I stopped coaching. I mean, I'd played a little bit player coach at Nuneaton, which was the same, it was a feeder club for Leicester and I actually enjoyed playing after I left Leeds, up 12 games and got them promoted. So me and Darren G as my mate, he was the fours player and I was the backs player and we. So I had a bit of fun playing at an Eaton, then went to New Nottingham and then unfortunately had to stop doing rugby coaching because it wasn't paying enough money after all the crap I had in France for me to look after my family. And it became, well, you better go and get some jobs in London because you need to think about security more than I'd probably love to stayed coaching. But it wasn't the right thing for me and my, me and my family at that time.

Lord Russell Baker: 1:09:01

Circumstances. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's a very true statement. And you know, these things happen in life, don't they? You just have to, you know, make changes that you have to make that like them or not, they, you know, that's. Life drives it to you sometimes. It's happened to me in life too, so. But we all go through it, let's be honest.

Tim Stimpson: 1:09:18

And I think that's good to talk about it because people think, oh wow, you've had this really great rugby career, you've gone into business and. And no, I didn't. I had a load of ups and downs in my rugby career and then I had massive because I'd. I'd invested in Spanish properties, I'd invested in the Bahamas, I'd invested all my money I was going to earn going to France because I basically was going to be given a load more money, but I never got that money, so I basically never went bankrupt. But all of a sudden people assume that, oh, well done, you've had a. You've earned loads of money playing rugby, which we didn't, relative to football. And then my investments with the stock market and everything else and the, the global crash meant that I had to literally go and get jobs to, to buy food. So again, it's very humbling. It means I've never been bored, I've never been. I've got so much money, I'm just going to sit and play golf. No, no, no, I was, I was drafting, which has probably made me a happier person potentially because, yeah, definitely I like to stay humble and, and stay alert and I've never been.

Lord Russell Baker: 1:10:19

That's a good thing though, isn't it? I mean, I've always said I'd never retire for one. Tim, you know, I'll keep going. It. It's that choice in life that keeps the energy going, keeps the mind focused physically. Keep yourself physically fit at the same time. It's so important, isn't it, if you suddenly start playing golf every day and don't, don't do any thinking, don't do anything constructive with your mind, you'll lose it.

Tim Stimpson: 1:10:41

Yeah.

Lord Russell Baker: 1:10:42

And it happens to so many people, I think I don't want that to happen to me.

Tim Stimpson: 1:10:45

No, I'm sure it won't be doing this sort of thing and meeting all these, you know, people and, and changing the world like you are. So be.

Lord Russell Baker: 1:10:51

Try to.

Tim Stimpson: 1:10:52

They will. The, the thing is, you've also got to find your new clan. I think that's something that. I think because I was down in London, I was away from my normal. My mates from Leicester, if you like, or from Yorkshire. So I think I found it difficult to know who to trust. And I don't think that's any different from anybody else coming out of sport now or coming out of the military. These lads have got. You finish a career well, you've earned the respect of your mates, you've got a really good crew, but that's not really helping you if you're working in banking or insurance or utilities or whatever is. So the lesson would be to stay closer to some of your old mates and try and get some sort of more secure stepping stone where you can be looked after a mentored a bit like I did for Andy Goode or Johnny Wilkinson. I should have had a, a mentor taking me into what I call Civic street, into the world. But, you know, we live and learn. And if you know now what you knew then life would have been easier. But all the other way around.

Lord Russell Baker: 1:11:49

Yeah, indeed. Hindsight's a great thing, isn't it? And we all have these. We all have these stepping stones, should we say, to cross. Well, most of us anyway. We've got the mentality and the energy to do this, which is a good thing, of course. And we all have these roadblocks, these stepping stones. I still suffer with it today. I get it all the time, but, you know, but your Leeds Tykes coach, I mean this is a fantastic statement. Phil Davies commented, and I'll quote what he said, because it's quite incredible. Tim will always be remembered as one of the most successful players ever in the professional era of this country. I mean, that's some accolade, Tim, isn't it?

Tim Stimpson: 1:12:28

It's a fantastic state to have said. I think it was at a time when I was very lucky to have been an amateur rugby player, like we talked about and the fun and the personalities and the crack. And then I was there when it turned pro and I was able to be at the right place at the right time. People like Newcastle and Left.

Lord Russell Baker: 1:12:48

Exactly.

Tim Stimpson: 1:12:49

And even, even got to the final of that European Cup. It would have been another chance to won, another bit of a silverware if I've been healthy. So. So I've had a really nice domestic career. I've had a flavor of what it's like to play and win for England and obviously to go on that successful tour of 97. And so, yeah, I can take that. And it's given me the resilience to cope with the city street issues, the bounces. And I think you are, I think. And I come back to that solid foundation that my parents and my grandparents now, they said to me, nil sil labor. Nothing without labor and neglect, not the gift that is within thee. And these, a bit of Latin, like a bit old fashioned, but no, this is what was written in my birthday card when I was 16 and 18 and 21. So it was never gone, lad, go and play rugby for your country and earn a load of cash and, you know, go and live in Dubai and have a laugh. It was never about that. So I was never judging myself against external stuff. It was always about, well, do the best with what you've got. Be humble, learn, make sure you're helping people. They'll hold you back. And so I think that my ultimate confidence comes from that family and the rugby family that adopted me at Sandal and then Wakefield and then Hartlepool. And so it's really important, I think, that we give kids a chance to experience that sort of belonging. And that's what sport has given me. So you've got your school life, but then when you get down the club, you can relax, you can be strong, you can bump into each other, you can smack each other and you don't get told off. Actually, it's a great way of young men learning how to be men, taking responsibility for themselves and for their mates not being bullies, but being confident.

Lord Russell Baker: 1:14:39

Exactly.

Tim Stimpson: 1:14:39

And so I think it's really important that we give these kids a chance. And that's why I love raising money for charities or rugby coaching or whatever it is now. And well done to all those coaches, all those school teachers that maybe don't get the financial reward they deserve, but what they're doing is building people who can cope with the shit that's coming.

Lord Russell Baker: 1:15:02

Yeah, and the shit does come. We know that. We all get it in great heaps at times. I have to say now, as we know, Tim, sport and business go hand in hand. And I know you have certain business interests. In fact, you're actually in one of your business partners offices right now recording the podcast with me. So it's fantastic. So what business capabilities and delivery are you now involved with? I know because we've been talking about some things, but I'll let you talk about it on the show. We have talked about certain business capabilities, particularly around delivering EV chargers, energy storage via sun, solar panels, always great stuff at sporting stadiums and car parks. So please tell us more about this new venture that I'm kind of working with you on.

Tim Stimpson: 1:15:45

Yeah, well, I've gone back into energy because the market shifted. I, when I went to ICI in 1996, they were a petrochemical based business and I said, look, what about renewables? And they just laughed at me. And then 10 years ago I did a, did some programs with some rugby clubs and golf clubs where some of them were able to take advantage, but it was more about have you got the money to do it and. Or have you got. Are you an evangelical, you know, tree hugger? I've been called in the past, you know, but, but actually my mom and dad told me this when they were at university back in the 70s, 60s. We knew that we were killing the planet with the amount of carbon that we're making. So Trump's still coming out saying that it's a myth, it's horrible and it's an untruth and it's A lie. We know that animals and plants are being destroyed, so we need to do something about it. But back to the business. It's now more expensive to stay on dirty fuel than it is to move to dark green or green energy. So the world's flipped over. It used to be a luxury and expensive to go and sort yourself out with, you know, heat pumps or solar panels or batteries or wind, whereas now your energy will be cheaper if you do. So my opportunity there as a. I'm a bit like a fullback, playing behind the best pack there's ever been with. I've got Jonah Lamu playing for me, I've got Johnny Wilkinson playing. I've got. If you like. The tools I've got at my disposal now when it comes to green tech are amazing. All I've got to do is tell people about it and say, look, do you want to reduce the cost of your energy at the same time as helping to reduce carbon footprint?

Lord Russell Baker: 1:17:25

Yes.

Tim Stimpson: 1:17:26

All right, let me know. And so there are. We can do that for. For every business we come across, every school, every, you know, farmer, every. And then. And then we're working on the model for every household as well. So I'm in a really good place because I've tried to do this for about 20 years and finally the technology and the relationships have come back and the people that I'm working with here, they've been doing it for 20 years and now they're inundated with work. You know, the conversation around this boardroom is we need more installers because. And that's great, isn't it, that we finally. It's not just about a choice between money and maybe doing the right thing for your grandkids. It's the same choice. Do the right thing for your grandkids and you and your business and talk to the right people, because like, ever there's. There are sharks swimming around, there are dodgy people who will sell you a pup and take the cash and you got. That's the hardest thing about life after rugby is how do you find the people to trust? So it's sort of taken me a long time to and world. The cost of energy has gone up and the cost of batteries has come down, so all of a sudden people are more interested. So, yeah, every day I'm talking to people on the computer or in person saying, look, let me show you how we can save you money and help save the planet, inspire your staff, etc. Etc. So that's what I do. I'm also a qualified performance coach. Guess what? You know. So I love using science and applied mathematics to help people understand themselves. It's called emotional intelligence. So don't think that everybody looks at the world the same way that you do. You know, you need to understand what they. What they care about, what matters. And then if you can, then if you can shift how you communicate, if you can understand what's important to them, well, you can work together.

Lord Russell Baker: 1:19:21

So it's can indeed. It's.

Tim Stimpson: 1:19:23

It's not more complicated than that. But if you leave your ego behind and I accept that life's more fun working with other clever people who are maybe better than you at things and you just delegate to them and they delegate to you. It's a bit like that rugby idea. Jono couldn't have kicked the goal, but I couldn't have won the line out or the scrum. So it's just looking after each other and playing smart.

Lord Russell Baker: 1:19:45

Absolutely right. And I'm working with a football agent at the moment, opening doors at football clubs as you do. As I do as well. And I've tasked him with getting this documentation out around all these ev charges and the green world out to the football club. So I've got a brochure now which I've slightly updated with my details, given it to the football agent and he's going off with glory, going around trying to open up doors of it. So I'm hoping we should have something soon from that.

Tim Stimpson: 1:20:14

Let's see, it's when, not if. Isn't it now that people real when people start realizing the guy next door's done it and that business has done it. Why haven't I they all talk about it then, don't they all question when. So yeah, anyone that's interested once a. What we basically do is provide indicative. This is what. This is your situation and you don't have to do. We're not going to charge you for it. It's just ideally here's two or three things you should do and it's going to make you better off. But that's. Yeah, that's cool, isn't it? It's just being part of the right crew again, passion for what you're doing.

Lord Russell Baker: 1:20:48

And what I said to him as well as a selling point, I say look, just say that you store the energy. It will give the club all the energy they need for match days on a Saturday or midweek, power everything and there will be energy left over. And I said, look, there's a chance here for those football clubs to actually support their sponsors selling back what's left to those sponsors at a very vastly reduced rate. So you're then supporting your sponsors as well as the sponsors are sponsored, are supporting the club. So it works both ways and helps keep those sponsors on board, of course, as well. So he's got away with that message, you know, and we'll see.

Tim Stimpson: 1:21:25

It's got to work for everybody. You know, we will do passion projects because we love our sport, but it's much easier if the FD says, that was a great decision. Let's put more money into the football club, golf club, rugby club, because we're getting more back for it. Yeah. And it's just about understanding what everybody needs, really.

Lord Russell Baker: 1:21:42

Absolutely right. And this show, of course, is called A Guided Missile. Guided Missile. And I read about this when I did the research. Well, it's fast. A fantastic story. Tell us about this and your message here with the guided missile. Because when I read it, I thought.

Tim Stimpson: 1:21:58

Wow, this is incredible.

Lord Russell Baker: 1:21:59

What a story.

Tim Stimpson: 1:22:00

Yeah. I was lucky. When I went to work at ICI back in 1996, I had the job of assessing all of their learning resources to try and make learning effective for all the people, like 50,000 people that were working there. So I had a cool job as a kid, used to fly me around to go and give. Give speeches. Idiots. I loved it. Yes. And one of the videos I found was John Cleese talking. You can find it on YouTube now. It's Gordon the Guided Missile. You see it? And it's basically about Gordon. He's got one job in his life. His job is to go off and hit that target over there. And that's his definition of success. He's got to try and land on that target. So he sets off. But he's not the brightest old Gordon, Right? But what he does do, he says, right, how am I getting on, lads? And he sends a signal back to base saying, I've set off. How am I getting on? He said, oh, you're a bit. You're a bit high, Gordon, and you're a bit too far to the left. So Gordon, every 30 seconds, he sort of sends back this message saying, how am I getting on? You're a bit too high, you're a bit too low, you're a bit too far. You need to go that way. So eventually, Gordon asks these questions all the way there, and then he effectively lands. Blows up his target. So he does his job. And so the moral of the story is that even if you don't know everything, if you prepare to ask the question and say look, guys, help me out. How am I getting on? You can be steered back on track. So you might make lots of little mistakes, but it's not a problem. And you still get to where you need to get to when you got the right people giving you help. And so I just thought what a simple message that is, because most of us. Very simple, when we don't know the answer, we. We blag it, fake it till you make it. We go, oh, yeah, or we. Or we get stubborn about things and say, I could do this. I know what I'm doing. And then you end up making a mess of it because you haven't got the knowledge you needed or the experience. And so you end up, you know, just missing the target. So the important thing is that you ask people. There's a bloke that's coming into the room here. This is Steve, if you want to meet him. Yeah, well, I'm being told they need to lock the officers up. This is Steve, one of the blokes to come and fix your solar and batteries.

Lord Russell Baker: 1:24:08

We're nearly at the end, Stephen, so I won't be keeping 10 much longer. It's a lot of building up, that's all. Okay. We won't be much longer, I can promise you that. That's a great message to get across, and I'll take that on board. They'd want to lock the offices up. And to be fair, that's just reality.

Tim Stimpson: 1:24:23

You got to roll with the punches, haven't you?

Lord Russell Baker: 1:24:25

You have. You got to roll with it. Yeah, I can do it outside.

Tim Stimpson: 1:24:28

Can we do it outside?

Lord Russell Baker: 1:24:30

Oh, I'm nearly finished, actually, to be honest. So let's. Let's end it. Let's just do the. The right thing here, okay? It's a great story about the guided missile. I learned that story many, many years ago, and I always ask for help. Personally, I have to say.

Tim Stimpson: 1:24:43

Yeah, I'm learning. It's taken me a while, to be honest.

Lord Russell Baker: 1:24:46

Forget the pride. It's worth asking. Anyway, as always, I'm going to wrap up now. Tim, as always, on the World of Lord Russell podcast talk show. We could talk forever, too, about your life as a professional rugby union player at the highest level, domestically, as an England international British lion and Irish Lions tour South Africa, standing tall with the Barbarians. A business leader and motivational speaker. It's been a huge pleasure, as always, and as always, the pleasure is all mine and of course, the show's audience when this podcast is released on the World of Lord Russell podcast talk show and the Lord Russell Baker YouTube. Thank you, Tim. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Tim Stimpson. Big round of applause going off here as always. And do you mind just hanging on, Tim, just for a few seconds whilst I'll just wrap up.

Tim Stimpson: 1:25:32

Great.

Lord Russell Baker: 1:25:32

We'll be very, very quick. This is the final episode of 2025 and I hope everyone has enjoyed the podcast shows this year. It also gives me great pleasure to wish everyone a truly wonderful Christmas filled with love, warmth and health. Plus, of course, wishing everyone a truly momentous new year in 2026 and a successful 2026 for all, one and all. So more great shows to look forward to in 2026, where both sport and business combined together with exclusive shows on the World of Lord Russell podcast talk show and the Elite arena business and sports Talk show on YouTube. And of course, I'm looking forward to seeing you all on the inside. So until then, it's a revoir from him and au revoir from me.